ASBEL KIPROP TO DOUBLE

Finally, a smart move by AK

Smart move, he is definately good enough to medal in both and at least a goal in one. Keep in mind that there are no sub 3:30 or 1:43 athletes out there for him to worry about.

800: Kaki

1500: Choge

No gold for Kiprop this year. I say a close silver in the 1500 and a bronze at best in the 800. Too many 800 specialists will be fresh for the rounds.

well, I guess now we are going to see how feasible the 8/15 double is by a clean athlete because knowing the way young Kenyans tend to burst on to the scene brilliantly for 3-4 years then flame out, this might just be the best form we see Kiprop in.

My opinion is that Kiprop will win the 1500m, but I think his biggest obstacle will be getting through the rounds that is the lottery of the mens 800m. We have seen Kiprop run well in fast, smooth, even paced 8's but lets see how he goes when the pace is going up and down, he's getting elbowed and bumped and having to run 3 wide in the sh*t fight that is mens 800m running.

Final picks - winning the 1500m but bowing out in the 800m in a "slow" semi final finishing third in 1.44.9X

Kenya has four spots in both events, so this makes sense. Kenya good actually sweep the medals in the 1500.

TrackCoach wrote:

Smart move, he is definately good enough to medal in both and at least a goal in one. Keep in mind that there are no sub 3:30 or 1:43 athletes out there for him to worry about.

Augustine Choge has run 3:29 this year!!!!! 3:29 is sub 3:30 last time I checked.

No way in hell Symmonds makes this final now.

Tariq-Al Gronkhummad wrote:

well, I guess now we are going to see how feasible the 8/15 double is by a clean athlete because knowing the way young Kenyans tend to burst on to the scene brilliantly for 3-4 years then flame out, this might just be the best form we see Kiprop in

eh ???

if he's clean, what is this drivel about associating him with any athletic lifespan ???

keino, billy, moses, paul, eliud, gus...

Augustine Choge always runs fast 1500-3000m. He has for the past 4-5 years. However, he's never really been a huge force in championship - or championship style - races. There's been several WCs he didn't make even though he was the fastest or 2nd fastest in the world. Kiprop seems to have all the right tools for champs races - the ability to run fast times, the ability to close hard off either fast OR slow times.

Ventolin, you are a silly little fellow aren't you.

Drivel? I am guessing by Keino, Billy. Moses, Paul you are talking about Kip Keino, Billy Koncellah, Moses Kiptanui and Paul Bitok right?

Well those guys were from a different era my friend - an era where

a) They didn't race as much (even though I will give credit to Kiprop because he hasn't raced too much this year)

b)Not every race was essentially a time trial (which over a concentrated period of years is extremely taxing on the body of a clean athlete)

c) The pure depth of talent was not as high (and dont even try to argue this - there is no way back in the late 80's early 90's there were 20-30 guys running under 1.45 in the 800m as an example).

As for Eluid Kipchoge and Augustine Choge - well, first of all both of these guys are 5000m runners which Kiprop is not (even though Choge has obviously come down a distance very successfully), and these events are simply easier to sustain longer international careers in because of the nature of the training required (far more aerobic than anaerobic which (with regards to anaerobic training) is far more likely to either injure an athlete or simply burn them out. I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting you would even argue this point.

Regardless, neither of those two have really "taken the world by storm" and dominated over a concentrated period of time now have they?

So let's look at some pure African/Kenyan MD talents over the last few years (running in a system and environment that is far more aligned with what Asbel Kiprop is currently doing), who seemed poised to be the next dominant runners of their generation

William Chirchir

Cornelius Chirchir

Noah Ngeny

Daniel Kipchirchir Komen

Alex Kipchirchir

Daniel Komen (WR holder Komen)

and you could even make a case for Wilson Kipketer, who after dominating from 1995-1999 pushed his reserves so low he contracted malaria and was never the same again (his once in a generation talent allowed him to do the things he did in his comeback).

All had 4-5 year MAXIMUM "windows" where they could sustain the outstanding level they were running at before either simply burning out of getting chronically injured.

For christs sake even the great white runners like Ovett, Coe, Cram, Scott all had windows of greatness where they were truly dominant (and not as long as you might think) - all which came to end because they were simply human and couldnt avoid injury, sickness, some kind of burning-out.

Now I am not saying this certainly means this will happen with Kiprop, BUT pure mathematical odds are against him. For every Wilson Kipketer there is twenty William Chirchirs or Alex Kipchirchirs.

Being clean has everything to do with athletic lifespan. How do you think Regina Jacobs was such a great athlete at 35 years old? How do you think Carl Lewis was so awesome for 15 years? (in a brutal anaerobic sport). Said Aouita? Do you think they were doing the things they were doing late into their careers without cheating? What when everyone else who was "human" was falling prey to the simple fact that were are humans and not machines, and simply breaking down in some way shape or form?

Once again, your theoretical opinions have no real life or practical applications.

Once again, lets check back in a few years (I wont forget ya) and see who knows what they are talking about.

END OF ARGUMENT

Lenny Leonard wrote:

800: Kaki

1500: Choge

No gold for Kiprop this year. I say a close silver in the 1500 and a bronze at best in the 800. Too many 800 specialists will be fresh for the rounds.

We saw Kaki look pretty good in the rounds at the Olympics and then totally choke in the finals. I think we could see a repeat of that!I saw Kiprop run the mile in person at the pre and it was stunning! He seems to just toy with the other competitors! I say Kiprop pulls the double and is the story of the WC's!

We saw Kaki look pretty good in the rounds at the Olympics and then totally choke in the finals. I think we could see a repeat of that!I saw Kiprop run the mile in person at the pre and it was stunning! He seems to just toy with the other competitors! I say Kiprop pulls the double and is the story of the WC's!

Well, Kaki did not run in the final. He had a problem in the heats, but I believe it is ignorant to say he choked without more information. I think you choked in your description of Kaki at the Olympics.

Can kiprop win Gold in both events?? YES but i reckon he has a better chance in the 1500 than in the 800.He needs a 1.42 ability on the day to win the 800m and i do not think he has it yet plus he will be tired from the 1500 and the 800 rounds.

But iam glad Kiprop is starting to fill up the vacuum that was left after EL G's retirement.Lagat has not been able to 'fill it up'.

tergat you idiot

drivel

same major GP meets in '90s as today - golden league as well as super GPs

nonsense

every race had a wabbit meaning it was a time chase

rubbish

no one has broken 1'43 this year

work out average of top 5/10 in past 20y

there is bugger all difference

rubbish

no scientific eveidence that a 800 guy runner burns out quicker than a 5k one - bungei has been a top 800 runner from '02 - '08

they can be relied on to go sub-3'33 or sub-7'30 or sub-13 for virtually every year since '03 in big choge's case & since '05 in little choge's case

eh ?

5y is a damn good career for any guy

neither geb nor bekele broke track WRs after 5y from 1st

so ?

means 5y at top level is fair value & that doesn't discriminate between white or black

err...

those guys both have either faster 800 or 1500pb than asbel

wrong comparison

now i see what a total moron you are

an inadvertent over-the-counter-stimulant +ve in '88 & that is your basis for systemic drug use over 15y

idiot

eh ?

when did he test +ve for anything ?

when did his competitors in '80s accuse him of such ???

no stupid

there is no rule of how long an elite career will be

& drug use is likely to shorten them rather than prolong them - overperforming with them is likely to lead to higher rate of burn-out/injuries

nothing "theoretical" about it

you have provided nothing but nonsense in predicting how long an elite athlete's career will be

er45 wrote:

Can kiprop win Gold in both events?? YES but i reckon he has a better chance in the 1500 than in the 800.He needs a 1.42 ability on the day to win the 800m and i do not think he has it yet plus he will be tired from the 1500 and the 800 rounds.

But iam glad Kiprop is starting to fill up the vacuum that was left after EL G's retirement.Lagat has not been able to 'fill it up'.

It will be something to watch. I really think he should go for the 1500 this year, and concentrate on the 800m for the next WCs (One is better than none!!!). But I hope he's in good shape and condition for it.

Ventolin. You don't make any sense. Please stop this.

Fact Pointer Outer wrote:

Kenya has four spots in both events, so this makes sense. Kenya good actually sweep the medals in the 1500.

So Lagat is Kenyan again?

I thought USA had 4 1500m spots.

I also like how Kiprop is declared clean.

As far as anyone can prove, Ramzi was clean in 2005 but failed a test in 2008. So Ramzi was the last clean athlete to succeed in that double.

It is impossible to declare anyone clean and claim that they are the first clean athlete to do such and such (brojos).

i saw the quote about kiprop being clean and i don't get it. why are we so sure? why are we even a little sure?