WHY DONT YOU BABIES STOP ARGUING AND GET BACK TO WORK, OR TAKING A NAP, OR WHATEVER YOU BIMBOS DO.
WHY DONT YOU BABIES STOP ARGUING AND GET BACK TO WORK, OR TAKING A NAP, OR WHATEVER YOU BIMBOS DO.
ventolin said:
"in fact, i'd consider bernie to have greater intrinsic speed than noah off this & potentially faster at 800/1k"
well buddy boy, the hard truth is that noah came through 800 in 144 (on his way to the WR...bernie never came close to that.
besides, bernie was only really good those few 326 years because he doped. everyone in the elite circles knows it. why do you think his test came back positive a few years back?
for all you Lagat lovers or haters, lagats spikes!
He will medal in both 1500m and 5000m, lagat is a legend!
middle distance wrote:You're talking b*** s**t again.
Where do you get all these conversions from indoors/outdoors, solo/rabbited (sorry, wabbited) from? Please tell us?
i'll make it simple for you moron :
1s/lap for wabbit in front & 1.75s/800 for indoor/outdoor conversion
I implied that a totally solo run outdoors of 1:43.9 was equivalent to about 1:42.7 for someone running indoors, which you dismissed as nonsense
it depends on how far the wabbit takes you :
coe : 1'43.9 - knock off 0.5s for wind = 1'43.4 solo, no wind
- wabbit to 200 - 400m = 1s x 200/400 = 0.5s drafting = 1'42.9
- wabbit to 200 - 600m = 1s x 400/400 = 1.0s drafting = 1'42.4
- wabbit to 200 - 800m = 1s x 600/400 = 1.5s drafting = 1'41.9
( latter in kip/bungei/bucher/borza/kim race where guys are running upto the 1'41s )
as caballo is 0.1s slower with 1'43.5, the same numbers apply considering error in estimates
for kip
1'42.6 solo - knock off 1.75s for indoor/outdoor = 1'40.9 solo
- wabbit to 200 - 400m = 1s x 200/400 = 0.5s drafting = 1'40.4
- wabbit to 200 - 600m = 1s x 400/400 = 1.0s drafting = 1'39.9
- wabbit to 200 - 800m = 1s x 600/400 = 1.5s drafting = 1'39.4
as no wabbit can run 1'39, therefore no one can take him to last line
compare lines with lines : classic is wabbit from 200m to 400m & dropping out - the 1st line
coe - 1'42.9
kip - 1'40.4
as i said, they are NOT in the same class
( as for banked curves - borza/kaki still had ~ 1.75s differential indoors/outdoors including banking )[/quote]
its infuriating wrote:What's more, you treat the jundo software as if it's infallible. How do we know how accurate it is?
What I refuse to do is calculate his potential time based on the indirect methods you're using. Could it have been 1:42? Maybe. 1:43, 1:44? Maybe. We don't know
we are in 21st century - we can do a lot better than 1'42/1'44 - you can get it to within a tenth or 2 if you have the best data
that calculator gives a 3'26/high-2'11 guy as ~ 1'42.9 - 1'43.0
you think that's big-time wrong ?
yes
who are we talking about? Ngeny ran 3.28.12 and Lagat has never been close to 2.11.
convert ngeny's 3'43.4 with standard 1.08 & work it from there
You still haven't answered the question! Where does this
- 1.75 sec conversion from indoor to outdoor come from?
There's no point bleating on about other athlete's improving by that amount from indoor to outdoor. What you seem to constantly ignore in your hypothetical meanderings is that athletes are all different.
All Kip's indoor 1:42.7 tells us that he was in 1:42.7 shape in March. He had come back from intense training in the US and was obviously all out to see where he was in terms of attacking the WR in the summer. Other athletes probably don't want to be in that shape in March.
If he'd run that same day outdoors I think it more likely he would have run slower, not faster, as there would be the weather to contend with.
How can drafting indoors be the same as outdoors, as outdoor conditions are variable. You don't have the problem of wind readings indoors as there isn't any!
Kip's run was in a Championship final where he would have seen split times and had competition, albeit behind him.
Coe's run was a pointless relay when he was already 40m plus infront of any opposition at the start and would have not known the splits. He looked like he was easing down the final homestraight, probably knowing that the record was broken and the European Champs were less than a week away.
You still chop and change your mind about how much the wind affects time.
For Coe you give 0.5 for 800m, but you already stated on another thread that it was 0.3 for 800m;-
VENTOLIN wrote: "therefore, a 3m/s wind gives a ~ 0.15s handicap/lap or 0.3s over 800m for 3m/s constant wind in the stadium."
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3136190&page=3
But if it's Steve Cram running an extra half lap in a 1000m, it's 0.9 sec!??
VENTOLIN wrote:- "cram was worth helluva lot faster over 400 & that's why he outkicked 1'44 guys in slow races
try 3'28 with either 2'12.0 ( gateshead without pissy rain/wind cold ) "
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3110477&page=5
Cram run 2:12.9, running the last lap solo (thereby being protected from drafting for all but 400m of the race, yet you state here that he would have run 2:12.0 without the wind, which represents an inmprovement of 0.9. It wasn't raining in Gateshead btw.
As I've said before, your theories and conversions are based on your own whims and don't stand up to scrutiny as they constantly contradict each other.
middle distance, you are much too stupid to comprehend simple scientific formulas so i won't waste my time arguing with you.
middle distance wrote:
You still haven't answered the question! Where does this
- 1.75 sec conversion from indoor to outdoor come from?
There's no point bleating on about other athlete's improving by that amount from indoor to outdoor. What you seem to constantly ignore in your hypothetical meanderings is that athletes are all different.
All Kip's indoor 1:42.7 tells us that he was in 1:42.7 shape in March. He had come back from intense training in the US and was obviously all out to see where he was in terms of attacking the WR in the summer. Other athletes probably don't want to be in that shape in March.
If he'd run that same day outdoors I think it more likely he would have run slower, not faster, as there would be the weather to contend with.
How can drafting indoors be the same as outdoors, as outdoor conditions are variable. You don't have the problem of wind readings indoors as there isn't any!
Kip's run was in a Championship final where he would have seen split times and had competition, albeit behind him.
Coe's run was a pointless relay when he was already 40m plus infront of any opposition at the start and would have not known the splits. He looked like he was easing down the final homestraight, probably knowing that the record was broken and the European Champs were less than a week away.
You still chop and change your mind about how much the wind affects time.
For Coe you give 0.5 for 800m, but you already stated on another thread that it was 0.3 for 800m;-
VENTOLIN wrote: "therefore, a 3m/s wind gives a ~ 0.15s handicap/lap or 0.3s over 800m for 3m/s constant wind in the stadium."
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3136190&page=3But if it's Steve Cram running an extra half lap in a 1000m, it's 0.9 sec!??
VENTOLIN wrote:- "cram was worth helluva lot faster over 400 & that's why he outkicked 1'44 guys in slow races
try 3'28 with either 2'12.0 ( gateshead without pissy rain/wind cold ) "
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3110477&page=5Cram run 2:12.9, running the last lap solo (thereby being protected from drafting for all but 400m of the race, yet you state here that he would have run 2:12.0 without the wind, which represents an inmprovement of 0.9. It wasn't raining in Gateshead btw.
As I've said before, your theories and conversions are based on your own whims and don't stand up to scrutiny as they constantly contradict each other.
You mean you can't argue against what is blatantly the case. Anyone with an iota of sense can see there is no consistency in your comments apart from the rudeness.
middle distance wrote:You still haven't answered the question! Where does this
- 1.75 sec conversion from indoor to outdoor come from?
There's no point bleating on about other athlete's improving by that amount from indoor to outdoor. What you seem to constantly ignore in your hypothetical meanderings is that athletes are all different.
you are an idiot
i used the differences between 2 exceptional talents in borza/kaki who took the indoor/outdoor season equally seriously in '01 & '08
if you can't work with the average difference they had & apply it to another elite in kip, then you are a moron
All Kip's indoor 1:42.7 tells us that he was in 1:42.7 shape in March. He had come back from intense training in the US and was obviously all out to see where he was in terms of attacking the WR in the summer. Other athletes probably don't want to be in that shape in March
no
idiot
borza & kaki took those indoor seasons damn seriously & coudn't break 1'44i when both ran 1'42 outdoors that year
only a moron woud believe kip's 1'42.6 represents "just a 1'42.6"
btw, do you have any clue about the double rotational force slowing a runner down on the curve indoors compared to out ???
it's basic physics
If he'd run that same day outdoors I think it more likely he would have run slower, not faster, as there would be the weather to contend with
no - he wouda run much faster
idiot
he woud have faced only 1/2 the rotational force of mv^2/r on the curve which is the reason for slowing indoors compared to outdoors
How can drafting indoors be the same as outdoors, as outdoor conditions are variable. You don't have the problem of wind readings indoors as there isn't any!
learn some basic physics idiot
a wabbit a step ahead, cuts thru the air at ~ 8m/s for a 50s/400, producing an instantaneous "vacuum" behind, which is immediately filled in with air rushing in & providing a "thrust" to the elite athlete of upto 8m/s
it occurs whether conditions are windy or not - nature abhorrs a vacuum
Kip's run was in a Championship final where he would have seen split times and had competition, albeit behind him.
Coe's run was a pointless relay when he was already 40m plus infront of any opposition at the start and would have not known the splits. He looked like he was easing down the final homestraight, probably knowing that the record was broken and the European Champs were less than a week away.
you are completely clueless if you can describe kip as having "competition" that day
he just dismissed them & charged from the gun
he couda been racing against 1/2 dozen schoolgals as far as he cared
as for coe's relay run, he certainly didn't look to be easing down & some other errors - his official time was 1'44.01 & it was an anchor leg, so he had a flying start of some tenths of a second advantage - get your facts right
You still chop and change your mind about how much the wind affects time.
For Coe you give 0.5 for 800m, but you already stated on another thread that it was 0.3 for 800m
i'm being generous to him
ok, i won't be generous, call it 0.3s
But if it's Steve Cram running an extra half lap in a 1000m, it's 0.9 sec!??
VENTOLIN wrote:- "cram was worth helluva lot faster over 400 & that's why he outkicked 1'44 guys in slow races
try 3'28 with either 2'12.0 ( gateshead without pissy rain/wind cold ) "
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3110477&page=5Cram run 2:12.9, running the last lap solo (thereby being protected from drafting for all but 400m of the race, yet you state here that he would have run 2:12.0 without the wind, which represents an inmprovement of 0.9. It wasn't raining in Gateshead btw
cram's 2'12.0 is also based on going thru too fast at 1'44.94 - 2'11.2 pace - he was too close to his 800pb to run that fast without having 3'43 endurance to hold on ( like noah ) - he faded significantly in last 200
Is their anyway we can ban ventolin from this board.
ventolin ( original ) wrote:
middle distance wrote:You still haven't answered the question! Where does this- 1.75 sec conversion from indoor to outdoor come from?
There's no point bleating on about other athlete's improving by that amount from indoor to outdoor. What you seem to constantly ignore in your hypothetical meanderings is that athletes are all different.
you are an idiot
i used the differences between 2 exceptional talents in borza/kaki who took the indoor/outdoor season equally seriously in '01 & '08
if you can't work with the average difference they had & apply it to another elite in kip, then you are a moron
CRAP. YOU CAN'T TAKE THE AVERAGE OF DIFFERENT RUNNERS' FORM FROM INDOORS TO OUTDOORS AND THEN APPLY IT TO A THIRD! Coghlan took the indoor season pretty seriously too, but he never ran as fast outdoors as indoors. Why not use him in "your average" scenario? I'll tell you why you don't, because he doesn't fit in with your stupid reasoning. Ergo, it cannot be applied.
All Kip's indoor 1:42.7 tells us that he was in 1:42.7 shape in March. He had come back from intense training in the US and was obviously all out to see where he was in terms of attacking the WR in the summer. Other athletes probably don't want to be in that shape in March
no
idiot
borza & kaki took those indoor seasons damn seriously & coudn't break 1'44i when both ran 1'42 outdoors that year
COE DIDN'T BREAK 1:46 INDOORS IN '81, BUT RAN 1:41 OUTDOORS. If he could improve by 4 secs then surely Kip (a far better athlete because he's Kenyan!) should have had no trouble running 1:38.5 that summer? JERK!
only a moron woud believe kip's 1'42.6 represents "just a 1'42.6"
IF YOU WANT TO BE PEDANTIC, his run was actually 1:42.7 not 1:42.6 to nearest tenth.
btw, do you have any clue about the double rotational force slowing a runner down on the curve indoors compared to out ???
it's basic physics
THEN PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE IT SLOWS AN ATHLETE DOWN BY 1.75secs for 800m, despite variable weather conditions outdoors compared to indoors.
If he'd run that same day outdoors I think it more likely he would have run slower, not faster, as there would be the weather to contend with
no - he wouda run much faster
idiot
he woud have faced only 1/2 the rotational force of mv^2/r on the curve which is the reason for slowing indoors compared to outdoors
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!
How can drafting indoors be the same as outdoors, as outdoor conditions are variable. You don't have the problem of wind readings indoors as there isn't any!
learn some basic physics idiot
a wabbit a step ahead, cuts thru the air at ~ 8m/s for a 50s/400, producing an instantaneous "vacuum" behind, which is immediately filled in with air rushing in & providing a "thrust" to the elite athlete of upto 8m/s
it occurs whether conditions are windy or not - nature abhorrs a vacuum
IT WOULD STILL BE AFFECTED BY WIND LEVELS.
Kip's run was in a Championship final where he would have seen split times and had competition, albeit behind him.
Coe's run was a pointless relay when he was already 40m plus infront of any opposition at the start and would have not known the splits. He looked like he was easing down the final homestraight, probably knowing that the record was broken and the European Champs were less than a week away.
you are completely clueless if you can describe kip as having "competition" that day
he just dismissed them & charged from the gun
he couda been racing against 1/2 dozen schoolgals as far as he cared
as for coe's relay run, he certainly didn't look to be easing down & some other errors - his official time was 1'44.01 & it was an anchor leg, so he had a flying start of some tenths of a second advantage - get your facts right
EVEN THE COMMENTATOR SAID HE WAS EASING DOWN AS HE ENTERED THE HOME STRAIGHT:- "Relaxing,...saving himself".
He wouldn't have been aware of 200m split times and he went through 200m in 23.2, 400m in 49.1, so he was running at 1:38 pace. Where are all the "conversions" for him for running way too fast in the early stages that you apply to Kip, Lagat and others?
You still chop and change your mind about how much the wind affects time.
For Coe you give 0.5 for 800m, but you already stated on another thread that it was 0.3 for 800m
i'm being generous to him
ok, i won't be generous, call it 0.3s
But if it's Steve Cram running an extra half lap in a 1000m, it's 0.9 sec!??
VENTOLIN wrote:- "cram was worth helluva lot faster over 400 & that's why he outkicked 1'44 guys in slow races
try 3'28 with either 2'12.0 ( gateshead without pissy rain/wind cold ) "
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3110477&page=5Cram run 2:12.9, running the last lap solo (thereby being protected from drafting for all but 400m of the race, yet you state here that he would have run 2:12.0 without the wind, which represents an inmprovement of 0.9. It wasn't raining in Gateshead btw
cram's 2'12.0 is also based on going thru too fast at 1'44.94 - 2'11.2 pace - he was too close to his 800pb to run that fast without having 3'43 endurance to hold on ( like noah ) - he faded significantly in last 200
LOL! THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAID AT THE TIME. It was more than 2 secs outside his 800m pb that year, and was what he needed to break the record. If he'd gone through in 1:46.0 there's no way he'd have speeded up and run 26.0 in the last 200m.
In any case, Ngeny run within 0.5 sec of his pb at 800m during his record. I know what you'll say at this point:- ..... he was capable of 1:42 and had 3:43 endurance. Well, if you can "pluck" theoretical times for Ngeny then I can say Cram could have run 3:44 for a mile that year, so 1:45 wouldn't have been too fast for 800m.
The fact that Ngeny broke the WR in Rieti (a track which you have cast doubt on being the proper length when Ovett & Coe set 1500m pbs), was because he had a pacemaker for a further 100m than Coe & Cram, and had company 4m behind him up to 800m. Add that into your bloody conversions and formulas. That 100m drafting is worth 0.25 secs isn't it? So without that he'd have run 2:12.21.
go ahead and try and ban me. loser/
Welcome aboard wrote:
Is their anyway we can ban ventolin from this board.
middle distance wrote:CRAP. YOU CAN'T TAKE THE AVERAGE OF DIFFERENT RUNNERS' FORM FROM INDOORS TO OUTDOORS AND THEN APPLY IT TO A THIRD!
moron
of course you can
better still, take it off the top 5 of the indoor list & see what they ran outdoors that year & compare average & apply to kip
- borza 1'44.15 / 1'42.47 = 1.68s
- mwengi 1'44.71 / 1'43.35 = 1.36s
- pawel 1'44.78 / 1'44.32 = 0.46s
- kaki 1'44.81 / 1'42.69 = 2.12s
- baala 1'44.82 / 1'44.17 = 0.65s
average = 1.25s
with notes that pawel ran 1'43.22 the season before 1'44.71i & baala ran 1'43.15 the season before 1'44.82
Coghlan took the indoor season pretty seriously too, but he never ran as fast outdoors as indoors. Why not use him in "your average" scenario? I'll tell you why you don't, because he doesn't fit in with your stupid reasoning. Ergo, it cannot be applied
because moron that is 1 mile & not 800m
& couglan stopped running serious outdoor 1500s when ovett/coe/cram came along & ran mostly 5ks outdoors - 5k in moscow & 5k in helsinki
if he'd had the confidence to run regular outdoor miles against these guys in his 3'49i shape in '83, no doubt you wouda seen 3'46/3'47 outdoors
COE DIDN'T BREAK 1:46 INDOORS IN '81, BUT RAN 1:41 OUTDOORS. If he could improve by 4 secs then surely Kip (a far better athlete because he's Kenyan!) should have had no trouble running 1:38.5 that summer? JERK!
moron
he was nowhere near top shape when he ran 1'46i
now idiot, explain when he ran his 1'44.9i PB how come his outdoor best that year was only 1'43.80
use that ballpark differential as a basis for kip, not nonsense 4s - & kip's was solo
IF YOU WANT TO BE PEDANTIC, his run was actually 1:42.7 not 1:42.6 to nearest tenth
moron
a 9.97 guy is listed as 9.9, NOT 10.0
1'42.67 will be listed as 1'42.6
THEN PRODUCE THE EVIDENCE IT SLOWS AN ATHLETE DOWN BY 1.75secs for 800m, despite variable weather conditions outdoors compared to indoors
see above top list for 5
now do it for 10 & see the difference
he woud have faced only 1/2 the rotational force of mv^2/r on the curve which is the reason for slowing indoors compared to outdoors
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!
moron
1st bit of relevant physics quoted & your pea-brain can't understand
go & read some basic physics idiot !
IT WOULD STILL BE AFFECTED BY WIND LEVELS
moron
drafting advantage depends only on speed of wabbit
adverse winds are added in afterwards
can your simple brain not comprehend this basic premise ???
EVEN THE COMMENTATOR SAID HE WAS EASING DOWN AS HE ENTERED THE HOME STRAIGHT:- "Relaxing,...saving himself".
usual coleman bullshit
he wasn't saving himself for anything - he ran it hard
He wouldn't have been aware of 200m split times and he went through 200m in 23.2, 400m in 49.1, so he was running at 1:38 pace. Where are all the "conversions" for him for running way too fast in the early stages that you apply to Kip, Lagat and others?
quite simply coudn't hang onto 49 pace anymore
never broke 1'43 again
why don't you use your pea-brain & look at cram's solo 3rd leg of 1'44.54 & put it in context of his best that year of 1'44.45
cram ran ~ same split for relay in same conditions as coe as he ran for outdoors & also solo as he had 1.5s lead on starting 3rd leg - indicating coe's 1'44.01 leg was about same timing in open race as solo relay leg
LOL! THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAID AT THE TIME. It was more than 2 secs outside his 800m pb that year, and was what he needed to break the record. If he'd gone through in 1:46.0 there's no way he'd have speeded up and run 26.0 in the last 200m
moron
cram liked running even-paced 800s more than any guy before him since ryun
he most definiteley wouda luved to go thru in 1'45.5 ( NOT 1'46.0 ) for a 2'12.0 clocking
In any case, Ngeny run within 0.5 sec of his pb at 800m during his record. I know what you'll say at this point:- ..... he was capable of 1:42 and had 3:43 endurance. Well, if you can "pluck" theoretical times for Ngeny then I can say Cram could have run 3:44 for a mile that year, so 1:45 wouldn't have been too fast for 800m
no
cram was worth mid-3'45 off his wr - NEVER 3'44
The fact that Ngeny broke the WR in Rieti (a track which you have cast doubt on being the proper length when Ovett & Coe set 1500m pbs)
no
i have never doubted rieti's length - only idiots do that
rieti is a fast track for middle-distance for 2 reasons
1) at 300 - 400m altitude it is the perfect meeting point of minimally reduced O2 saturation of haemoglobin with altitude & significantly more reduced air-resistance for running
2) forested area providing significant more O2 in the local vicinity
was because he had a pacemaker for a further 100m than Coe & Cram, and had company 4m behind him up to 800m. Add that into your bloody conversions and formulas. That 100m drafting is worth 0.25 secs isn't it? So without that he'd have run 2:12.21.
all offset by fact noah had even hypothetical slower 800m ability than coe ( ~ 1'41.5 ), cram ( 1'42.5 ) at likely 1'42.9 - running much closer to 800pb than either coe or cram hurt him significantly more than those guys at 800 ( 1'44.5 & 1'44.9 ), but superior mile ability helped him more than those
if he'd gone thru in 1'45.0 - 1'45.25, i'd have expected noah to have gone close to 2'11.5 - add 0.25s for longer drafting & we have close to 2'11.75 under same wabbiting scenario as other 2
your gay
that guy was trolling, i don't call people moron
now
to get answers to hypothetical for indoor/outdoor conversion for 800m, it depends on combining factors of :
shorter radius & banking
shorter radius factor can be worked on from :
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?p=503458#503458
for counteracting banking :
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=11132&highlight=unbanked
someone who's got time, have a go for 1'42.67i to outdoors, assuming banking height of 2 - 4m & radii of 36.9 v 18.45m
i haven't got time to look at it properly 'til weekend ( but i'll try next hour ) so if any young hotshot has time :
do it !
VENTOLIN wrote:-
"moron
of course you can
better still, take it off the top 5 of the indoor list & see what they ran outdoors that year & compare average & apply to kip
- borza 1'44.15 / 1'42.47 = 1.68s
- mwengi 1'44.71 / 1'43.35 = 1.36s
- pawel 1'44.78 / 1'44.32 = 0.46s
- kaki 1'44.81 / 1'42.69 = 2.12s
- baala 1'44.82 / 1'44.17 = 0.65s
average = 1.25s
with notes that pawel ran 1'43.22 the season before 1'44.71i & baala ran 1'43.15 the season before 1'44.82
UTTERLY MEANINGLESS! They are different athletes. You have no idea of knowing their individual build ups to the Summer season, frequency of injury, etc.
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"because moron that is 1 mile & not 800m
& couglan stopped running serious outdoor 1500s when ovett/coe/cram came along & ran mostly 5ks outdoors - 5k in moscow & 5k in helsinki
if he'd had the confidence to run regular outdoor miles against these guys in his 3'49i shape in '83, no doubt you wouda seen 3'46/3'47 outdoors"
MORE RUBBISH. I have Coghlan's biography. After he ran his 3:50.6i in '81, he went on to run 7 outdoor Miles (not incl 1500m), thats more than double what Coe ran. After his '83 3:49.78i, he ran 6 outdoor miles. More than he ran at 5k. Get your facts right.
So athletes improve an average of 1.25 (despite you saying it was 1.75 for Kip. ;0)) for 800m, but it's less for 1 Mile!? So what is the agreed conversion time for a Mile (indoors to out) in the land of Ventolin?
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"moron
he was nowhere near top shape when he ran 1'46i
now idiot, explain when he ran his 1'44.9i PB how come his outdoor best that year was only 1'43.80
use that ballpark differential as a basis for kip, not nonsense 4s - & kip's was solo"
AND YOU CALL ME A MORON? Your a f***ing idiot!
So Coe purposely chose to be in crap shape in the winter of '81, but be in much better form in the winter of '83? Try Coe wanted to win the race in '81 and in 83 he was in a tougher race and the first 400 was faster. Doesn't take a genius to work that one out, but obviously requires a moron not to see it.
Coe could run 1:44/1:45 almost anytime of the year between 79-86. The reason he only ran 1:43.8 in 83 was because he had toxoplasmosis.
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"a 9.97 guy is listed as 9.9, NOT 10.0
1'42.67 will be listed as 1'42.6"
WHAT LISTS DO YOU USE? Where is Kip's indoor record listed as 1:42.6?
Published lists will always be given to the nearest 1/100. For the basis of these message boards it's fine to round to the nearest 1/10. 1:42.67 is nearer to 1:42.7 than 1:42.6, but I don't give a shit what you want to put as your a law unto yourself anyway.
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"he woud have faced only 1/2 the rotational force of mv^2/r on the curve which is the reason for slowing indoors compared to outdoors.....moron
1st bit of relevant physics quoted & your pea-brain can't understand
go & read some basic physics idiot !"
YOU THINK THROWING IN A FEW FORMULAS WILL IMPRESS OTHERS OF YOUR GREATER WORTH OR INTELLIGENCE OR RIGHT TO BE LISTENED TO? ......Yes, you probably do! Have met people like you before. I don't need to read Physics text books thanks. I'll use what most people on here use; rational common sense. Something which your ramblings show you have little of.
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"quite simply coudn't hang onto 49 pace anymore
never broke 1'43 again"
WHY WOULD HE WANT TO HOLD ON TO 49.1 PACE IN A RELAY WHERE HE WAS ALREADY 30M AHEAD? Your comment is irrelevant.
Coe ran 1:43.0 (am I allowed to round down like you?) in 85 when he'd been training to run 5000m in the Winter and had loads of injury problems. He was clearly able to run sub 1:43 on that day in 82 (as your previous post validated, and which you're now retracting! Can we take anything you say seriously?) as he was in 84, 85 and 86. It's rich you're implying that he couldn't run sub 1:43 again, despite running 1:43.0 and winning the European title in 86, but your happy to give Lagat 1:43 despite never breaking 1:46! Your reasoning is not only clearly biased, it's laughable.
You have no idea.
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"why don't you use your pea-brain & look at cram's solo 3rd leg of 1'44.54 & put it in context of his best that year of 1'44.45
cram ran ~ same split for relay in same conditions as coe as he ran for outdoors & also solo as he had 1.5s lead on starting 3rd leg - indicating coe's 1'44.01 leg was about same timing in open race as solo relay leg"
ERR!? MOST OF THIS IS GIBBERISH! Yes Cram had no rabbit, but he had McGeorge up his backside for about 300m of the 2nd lap. Cram's first 400 was 50.5 (incomparable to 49.1). How can Cram's leg split be the same as Coe's when it was more than 0.5 slower? Cram's head was rocking at the end of his leg, Coe wasn't straining or out of breath at the end of his. You said before Coe's run was worth below 1:43, now you're saying it was worth 1:44.01 based on what?..... what Cram was running!?!
You're making yourself look stupid now.
VENTOLIN WROTE:-
"moron
cram liked running even-paced 800s more than any guy before him since ryun
he most definiteley wouda luved to go thru in 1'45.5 ( NOT 1'46.0 ) for a 2'12.0 clocking"
MORE HYPOTHETICAL NONSENSE. Firstly he wasn't running an 800, he was running a 1000. That's 200m MORE.
Secondly his first 800m was pretty even ~ 51.9, 53.0.
So after 400m he went; 26.9, 26.1 and then 28.0.
Your suggesting he goes 26.9, 26.8 and then he's going to speed up in the last 200m to 26.5! It's not going to happen. People don't "kick" off that pace, it's about who slows down the least.
VENTOLIN WROTE:
"all offset by fact noah had even hypothetical slower 800m ability than coe ( ~ 1'41.5 ), cram ( 1'42.5 ) at likely 1'42.9 - running much closer to 800pb than either coe or cram hurt him significantly more than those guys at 800 ( 1'44.5 & 1'44.9 ), but superior mile ability helped him more than those
if he'd gone thru in 1'45.0 - 1'45.25, i'd have expected noah to have gone close to 2'11.5 - add 0.25s for longer drafting & we have close to 2'11.75 under same wabbiting scenario as other 2."
LOL! I ASK YOU A QUESTION AND YOU ANSWER IT BY CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS AGAIN! The same could be said of the other 2. Whose to say that 1:44.6 was optimum for Coe in '81. I could say, if he'd been fresher and not run the solo 3:31 in Stockholm earlier that same week, or had he not had a blister burst on his foot during the race he would have been faster too. If your going to make excuses then it works more than one way.