The great STRETCH debate - vote here

Correct. What most people have learned about knee and ankle position is incorrect. The position of your knee to your ankle during squats, lunges, etc has to do with the relative lengths of each limb segment. IE: A tall guy and a short guy both do lunges with the same joint angles, my bet is that the taller guy will have his knee past his toes.Try walking up and down stairs without your knee coming past your toe. See? Not going to happen. This is one of the biggest myths in the fitness industry.Now, if you forcefully try to prevent your knee from coming past your toe guess where all that torque goes? Your hips. So instead of balancing forces between all your joints you are forcefully putting all that force on one joint...not a good idea. Your also asking for a strength imbalance between your hip and knee joints...which begs for injury.Provided you have a healthy knee to begin with it doesn't cause pain letting your knee come past your toes is fine.More reading:http://www.ironmagazine.com/article426.htmlhttp://www.bodybuilding.net/training/knees-over-toes-myth-12253.htmlhttp://www.johnberardi.com/updates/jan312003/na_myths.htmAlan

Mrs. M wrote:

In these lunges are you suggesting that your knee NOT be in a straight line with your ankle, that it is pointing more over your toes? That goes against everything I've ever heard about lunges. Other than that, #1, 2 and 4 presented no problems and are basic moves in yoga classes, so if runners are implementing some yoga-type stretches, chances are they WILL be able to do these.

if you dont stretch after a run your a dumbass

You´re right. Or maybe you should not contract at all...

estions:

1. How much do you stretch?

c) 10mins +

2. How many running injuries have you had in the last two years that have stopped you running? (count separate occurrences of the same injury as multiple injuries)

c) 2-3

should I do this routine before and after I run, or just after?

randomwickguy wrote:

if you dont stretch after a run your a dumbass

Here's some advice for you: If you are unable to spell simple words like 'you're', don't call people a dumbass.

After, and that's not a routine, just a list of exercises.

You should do drills and such before then dynamic/mobility stretches after.

Drills are "higher paced"...ie: butt kicks, high knees, bounds....dynamic stretches are controlled...ie: walking lunge, instep lunge, hip/knee pointers.

Alan

1. c (15 minutes a day)

2. b (achilles, a couple weeks no running, but no injury before that for 4 years)

For me its about recovery. If you stretch post run you force spasming muscle fibers to relax. This prevents them from knotting up and allows blood flow to move in and jump start recovery. If they knot up blood flow isn't as good.

It might be more interesting to hear of the running success of those posting either side of this debate - no stretching times (sub 4:00 mile, sub 14:00 5K, sub 29:00 10K, etc.) or wins/championships/accolades (post-high school championships, all-American, podiums/medals, national teams, etc.) vs. stretching success of the same.

thanks for all the thoughts everyone - if nothing else this thread is generating some good discussion about people's experiences.

Here's the summary so far:

A) no stretching (13 people) avg. = 0.92 injuries

B) 5-10mins (17 people) avg. = 0.588

C) 10+ (14 people) avg. = 0.643

interesting a lot of people have been injured from hamstring stretches. any others? i know achillies can be a tricky one to stretch safely.

lets start including PRs, avg weekly miles and the main type of stretching you do:

1) How much do you stretch? a) 0 b) 5-10mins c) 10+

2) How many running injuries have you had in the last two years that have stopped you running? (count separate occurrences of the same injury as multiple injuries)

3) PR (within the last 2 years)

4) weekly miles

5) stretch technique (active, static, dynamic etc)

b) Less than 5 mins on days not running though

2 Injuries

Had problems with hamstring and stretch this every day - and not stopped me running for past few years. 2 injuries achilles, then PF - from unwisely jumping off something

My cat does regular stretches - millions of years of natural selection can't be wrong!

Thank god we have the expert opinion of the local trainer from Curves. His advice should settle any and all debate.

1. a-0

2. b-1

'Static stretching is flawed because it is not dynamic. Your body functions through dynamic movement...not static stretching.'

I agree with you post apart from this bit. I agree on the dynamic movement part of this, but believe it can be used in conjunction with, after warmn up some static stretches. Other animals do static stretching. If you watch a cat they always do this - millions of years of natural selection can't be wrong!

As you say the following is anecdotal evidence, but the one stretch I used not to do was the hamstring one; then had a lot of h/s injury problems. Now I use both dynamic drills before a run and some stretching afterwards along with some dynamics as well.

Great? That's a bit of a stretch.

1. b)

2. a) but if I don't stretch my ITB after every run I will end up with an ITB problem wicked fast.

dr stretch wrote:

1. How much do you stretch?

a) not at all

b) about 5-10mins each day

c) 10mins +

C) = 10 minutes plus per day

2. How many running injuries have you had in the last two years that have stopped you running? (count separate occurrences of the same injury as multiple injuries)

a) O

b) 1

c) 2-3

d) 4+

a) zero injuries

1. - c) For about 10 minutes after my run

2. My IT band flared up numerous times from overuse. Introducing static stretching religiously solved the problem.

3. 35:30 10k, but I am definitely in at least 16:30 5k shape now.

4. 20-25 miles (I also bike 60+mpw, swim 1-1.5 hours per week, hike & lift)

5. Primarily static, but some dynamic.

Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but I'm somewhat dumbfounded that this topic is even being discussed. I don't see the debate about not stretching: OF COURSE you should stretch.

You do need to be careful not to overstretch, or to stretch cold muscles (meaning DON'T stretch before an easy run except for perhaps very lightly). This is the big problem: runners stretch cold muscles and get injured. Does this mean you shouldn't stretch? No. Just do so when you're warm and don't do too much.

For those saying static stretching is harmful I think you're mistaken. I have no scientific proof, just my own experience. I've only had one injury, and that was from a lack of flexibility, not the other way around. The problem with dynamic stretching is that it's easy to overdo it. "Bouncing" stretches lead to injuries while "held" stretches improves flexibility in the long-run without injuries. That said, I've found slow dynamic stretches to be very helpful.

updating mine...

1. c

2. 1

3. 1:58,3:58,4:17,8:51,15:45

4. i don't usually count but probably ranges from 50-80 mpw

5. dynamic as pre-run warm-up every day (5-10 minutes), static after run every day (15 minutes)