Choge and Keitany run 3:30 at Doha... Already faster than anyone in 2009.

TJ wrote:

People close to Haile G admit that he is closer to 40.

More like 45.

When people have names like "born near the grain sacks during the summer rains" yeah it may be a little tough to pin down real ages. But who really cares they all eventually run faster than you anyways.

everyone was off the juice last year, now they are back on - this isn't that difficult to figure out.

so we can expect people getting caught doping this year?

xxx wrote:

so we can expect people getting caught doping this year?

Not the Kenyans. Some day it will dawn on people that they're not dopers. There's no shred of evidence or even genuine suspicion among those that are closest to the action that any of them are in doping. Bob Kennedy was one of a group of western athletes who spent much time with Kiptanui and Ngeny and was never in the least suspicious.

Not all of them have consistency, we know that; many get distracted along the way, many are pushed too soon and race too much too early. However have a look at the progression and consistency of Choge. From what I hear he's been unlucky with injuries the last two years (season stopped early in 07 and was apparently injured in Beijing) but this looks like a tough young guy. He seems to have won a lot of good races; maybe this will be the year for him.

2003 3:37.48 WYB16 2-22 WK Zürich 15 Aug

2004 3:36.64 12rA KBC Heusden 31 Jul

2005 3:33.99 4r1 GP Sevilla 4 Jun

2006 3:32.48 1 ISTAF Berlin 3 Sep

2007 3:31.73 1 GP Doha 11 May

2008 3:31.57 1 ISTAF Berlin 1 Jun

2009 3:30.88 1 Super GP Doha 8 May

Mr. Thompson wrote:

Letsrun message boarders spent the past two months raving about American indoor performances in the 3:55 to 4:00 range, then all of a sudden you have the africans running 3:30 and 7:28 for 1500 and 3K, and its still only early May!

Different level of aerobic fitness I guess. Why isn't there at least one American running sub-3:35 yet !The more time passes, the more you realize how far behind guys like Webb are trailing.

well all 7 of the people under 3:35:00 for 1500 ran it in yesterdays race in doha qatar, and no americans ran there, the colleges have done indoors which is usually slower and they are racing other college kids so they for the most part have not been in races to pull them to a fast time, and there may not be any collegians under 3:35 for 1500 this year and they have been doing relays, as for our pros they have been in races more designed to be more of a glorified appearance than a top notch competition, also lets say webb or some other american ran a 3:30-3:32 for lagat people would say wow lagat is in shape, if webb or some other american ran under 3:33 in qatar the letsrun board would be saying why is he in that kind of shape in may? he wont have anything in august.

I don't think people consider all Kenyans are on PEDs or even most of them. I think people are suspicious when some run ridiculous times at very young ages or develop rapidly from one year to the next. Because there are so many Africans at the top, then of course when someone appears who fits that criteria, they are more likely to be African than other ethnic groups; based on simple law of averages.

Also, there is a general feeling that while athletes in the US and Europe have very stringent out of season testing, many African nations are far more relaxed about testing.

Having said all this, Choge looks genuine and has made steady, solid progress over the past 6 years. Running 3:30.88 at 22 is great but very believable for such a great talent. He should go 3:28/29 this year.

from my favorite doping site last year.

commenting on sources getting busted prior to the olympics last year and the lack of gear available.

"nice to see it is finally over. now if we can get past the olympics things might return to a semblance of normalcy."

middle distance wrote:Also, there is a general feeling that while athletes in the US and Europe have very stringent out of season testing, many African nations are far more relaxed about testing.

There are idiots who believe this shit: and just a week after Ramzi and two others were busted for CERA.There are often drop-offs in distance times during Olympic years because there's the urge to save everything for your trials and the Olympica. The Olympics make people do funny things. Steve Scott is a good example: he won the silver at Worlds in 1983, running 40+ races that year, but the next year he only ran half as many and he screwed the pooch in LA.

mother clucker wrote:

everyone was off the juice last year, now they are back on - this isn't that difficult to figure out.

To be honest, I don't think Choge has the closing speed to get it done in the 1500. It could be the injuries before the championships, but it seems like he's at the lead every big non-rabbited race I see him in and then can't drop the ~40ish last 300 that you need to win. He's run some good 3000s and is young. I guess there is always time for the 5000.

so you think that ramzi was the only athlete who was using? ha! you are naive fool!ramzi and the others were the only ones who were caught.there were guys who were asking for tips on how to smuggle actoveign into the olmypic village. you boys are fools.the guys who were busted for cera were only busted because there was something there to test. cera isn't filtered out so quickly, and is therefore detectable for a longer time. ahtletes could have used "regular" epo or any of the other 23 flavors and still passed the same test that ramzi failed.who is the last athlete to be busted by a >>test<< for hgh?

on the runs wrote:

There are idiots who believe this shit: and just a week after Ramzi and two others were busted for CERA.

There are often drop-offs in distance times during Olympic years because there's the urge to save everything for your trials and the Olympica. The Olympics make people do funny things. Steve Scott is a good example: he won the silver at Worlds in 1983, running 40+ races that year, but the next year he only ran half as many and he screwed the pooch in LA.

mother clucker wrote:

everyone was off the juice last year, now they are back on - this isn't that difficult to figure out.

Pictures of Eliud Kipchoge winning at IAAF Qatar Super Grand Prix in Doha

http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&assetType=image&p=doha

2009 kipchoge&src=standard

"There are often drop-offs in distance times during Olympic years because there's the urge to save everything for your trials and the Olympica. The Olympics make people do funny things. Steve Scott is a good example: he won the silver at Worlds in 1983, running 40+ races that year, but the next year he only ran half as many and he screwed the pooch in LA. "

There are as many examples of improvements in times during Olympic years as there are drops in time:- 1984-800m, 1996-800m, 2000-1500m, 1996-5000m,....

Go ahead and find the part where I claimed that Ramzi was the lone cheat in Beijing.

Motherclucker is right, and so is the guy pointing out the political angle. Anyone who thinks all E. Africans are clean is an absolute naive fool. A Cliff's version of E. African cheats includes: Delilah Asiago (holds 12k record on road, and 4 mile record on road), Ambrose Bitok, Pamela Chepchumba, Susan Chepkemei, Lydia Cheromei, Simon Kemboi, Elizabeth Muthuka, Charles Nyakundi, Janet Ongera, Ambesse Tolosa, Alene Emere, Bernard Lagat (officials helped 'fix things'), Noah Ngeny (ditto), Daniel Komen ("excess caffeine" - haha!).

Hey idiot. I know this is letsrun and people like you like to make shit up, but how about a link to your "favorite doping site" ? I googled your little quote, and can't find it anywhere. You know if you quote something you should ACTUALLY WRITE THE EXACT F***ING WORDS THE PERSON SAID, right?? So either you made them up, or were too lazy to actually quote. It's what we'd expect from idiots like you.

There are some African dopers wrote:

an absolute naive fool.

Perfect description for yourself if you think anyone fixed anything for Lagat. You think that they had a desire to fix the results, yet let it get out and then got a certified expert to lie about the results (something that can be tested)? What a conspiracy theory nut job.

'A Cliff's version of E. African cheats includes: Delilah Asiago (holds 12k record on road, and 4 mile record on road), Ambrose Bitok, Pamela Chepchumba, Susan Chepkemei, Lydia Cheromei, Simon Kemboi, Elizabeth Muthuka, Charles Nyakundi, Janet Ongera, Ambesse Tolosa, Alene Emere, Bernard Lagat (officials helped 'fix things'), Noah Ngeny (ditto), Daniel Komen ("excess caffeine" - haha!).'

So 2 Ethiopians ever, and not very good ones at that. Compared to how many on the list from the USA? (or the UK!)

As for your list of Kenyans. Check out the list of all time Kenyans on the marathon:

http://www.marathonguide.com/history/records/alltimelist.cfm?Gen=M&Sort=Time

There a probably a couple of hundred more who could have got on there if they had the chance to run a big city marathon! Thats a pretty small % failing the test.

Lagat was running for the US at the time, so where is you conspiracy theory there?

Caffeine is not even on the banned list now. If it's so effective surely that 7:20 time will go this year - I doubt it!

Do you not think being born and training at altitude and having a more effective training regime is the real reason East Africa are the best at distance running