Can't say. Both were incredible.
Can't say. Both were incredible.
Keino, hands down.
Jim Ryun.
What do you mean 2:46?
ryun jogged initial 300m of his 3'33.1wr ( dirt )
he ran last 3 laps in 2'46.6 = 3'28.25 pace !!!
here is jpg at bell with keino behind
http://www.dyestatcal.com/image/3tr/Februarypictures/030206jimryunworldrecord1500m.jpg
this was on dirt which may have been worth 1s/lap to mondo - look at the displaced energy-sapping dirt indentations
overall,
3'33.1 with even pacing shouda been ~3'30/3'31
knock off 3.75s for dirt ->
~ 3'26.25 - 3'27.25
Ryun's negative-splitting was freakish bordering on retarded. Probably the only guy to ever negative split a major record at 880/800, never mind that it was a WR.
Of all the athletes that he saw during his career (including Keino, Snell, Elliot, etc.) Ron Clarke called Jim Ryun the "best" he had seen...
ventolin wrote:
ryun jogged initial 300m of his 3'33.1wr ( dirt )
he ran last 3 laps in 2'46.6 = 3'28.25 pace !!!
46.5 for the 1st 300 isn't "jogging", but you're right, it is slower than one would expect from a world record.
Ryun, hands down...Mexico was at altitude so of course it favored the kenyan. He was probably slowed 2-3 seconds at most, whereas Ryun was slowed much more.
Snell's 1:44 on grass
Shorter's 2:10:20 on coke
hopely wrote:46.5 for the 1st 300 isn't "jogging"
it's 3'52.5 pace for 1500m
it's jogging
hopely wrote:
ventolin wrote:ryun jogged initial 300m of his 3'33.1wr ( dirt )
he ran last 3 laps in 2'46.6 = 3'28.25 pace !!!
46.5 for the 1st 300 isn't "jogging", but you're right, it is slower than one would expect from a world record.
This happened in the "dark ages" before it was routine for every important race to have a designated pace setter. This was a head-to-head competition between Ryun and Keino. The two had no help with the first 400 (never mind the first 300) before Keino took off in an attempt to dent Ryun's kick. It's easy to imagine that the final time would have been even faster if Keino had gone 50 or 100 meters earlier... Ryun ended up humiliating Keino, as he did again a few weeks later in a mile in London (completely different tactics by Keino, with same losing result).
Ryun was possibly the most talented middle distance runner yet, but training knowledge was primitive then in comparison to today. Timmons based too much of his theories on swimming I'd bet (Timmons was also a highly successful swim coach, It's interesting that back in '01, someone asked Lydiard during a seminar who he thought the greatest miler was, and he said he felt if had coached Ryun, Ryun would still hold the record in the mile (he also said the same for the 800). Ryun was too much of a nice guy some claim, and that hurt him as much as the physical problems and burn-out. Keep in mind Ryun finished a 3:38.2 race with a 36.4 last 300 meters (electric timing - not hand timed!). No one has yet run like that in a sub 3:40 race. He may have been some kind of freak, as his resting pulse rate was 72 and he was able to basically just run intervals all the time.
old tymer wrote:This happened in the "dark ages" before it was routine for every important race to have a designated pace setter
regardless of wabbit-deficient
it's still jogging
Tpo feat is John Daly's PGA Championship on Big Macs, Cinnabons and Scotch
Keino.
Keino had already run a 10,000m and 5,000m that week. He had advice from Doctors not to run, he went against that advice and ran 3.34 at altitude.
What would that convert to using the standard alt coversions the ncaa uses??
Ryun still only ran 1 sec faster, fresh and at sea level.
Firstly it was a newly laid track according to Cordner Nelson's book "The Milers" and it was very hot, so it would have been hard and fast. As the posters on the thread about cinders have said, the conversion of 1 sec a lap is over ambitious. Maybe 0.5 at most.
Secondly, there are lots of athletes who have run great times off uneven pacing. If the first 300 had been 43 or 44, then his last 1200m would likely be 2:49/2:50. Just because Bile ran the last 800m in 87 in 1:46.9 (3:20.44 pace for 1500m), doesn't mean he was capable of running anywhere near that time. So where is the reasoning behind saying it was worth 3:30/31?
There is no way any sane person can equate a 3:33.1 ( albeit an amazing run and superior to Keino's) to a 3:26/27.
ventolin wrote:
old tymer wrote:This happened in the "dark ages" before it was routine for every important race to have a designated pace setterregardless of wabbit-deficient
it's still jogging
You are by far my least favorite poster. Every one of your posts infuriates me. You magically conjured a 3:26 out of a 3:33. Yes Ryun COULD have run that race better, and YES dirt tracks are slower than mondo, but there is NO possible way to find a time that would relate to today's rabbited (NOTE THE R.. NOT A DAMN W) races.
Every post you make you seem to create these ridiculous assertions and support them with your "facts"... eg. Negative splitting an 800m is the best way to run because X and X did it.. despite tons of contrary evidence
bile ran only fast last 800
ryun ran a fast last 1200 - a lot closer to 1500 distance than bile
ryun is justifed in expecting atime a coupla seconds quicker with even pace
asdfsadfasdf wrote:You are by far my least favorite poster...
i wish i coud offer an opinion on yourself, but i can't remember anything of the slightest insight you've ever posted to do so ?!
