Jim Ryun: What could have been?

Omaha, Nebraska, 1980.

It was a 10K as I recall. Jim Ryun was there. The promoter had a hundred or so, as I recall, T-shirts printed up with "I beat Jim Ryun."

Nobody did. Jim Ryun beat the standing Nebraska stud road racer guy who didn't lose for years, except to Jim Ryun.

Wow! A real resurgence in Ryun threads of late. It must be all this talk of those insane DVTTs.

We are all indebted to Jim Ryun and Bob Timmons for finding out what does not work in training.

It's too bad for Jim Ryun that he came along before Arthur Lydiard became super famous like he is now!!! But even Arthur had to correct some over training mistakes in his athletes.

We will always be indebted to great people of the past. This includes the Saints!

Treasure in Clay wrote:

We are all indebted to Jim Ryun and Bob Timmons for finding out what does not work in training.

It's too bad for Jim Ryun that he came along before Arthur Lydiard became super famous like he is now!!! But even Arthur had to correct some over training mistakes in his athletes.

We will always be indebted to great people of the past. This includes the Saints!

This is completely false, Lydiard was the King of Running Coaches long before Ryun came along. Lydiard's athletes had won 4 Olympic gold and 2 Bronze over the 1960 & 1964 games from a country with barely 2.5m people (really just from the Auckland area). Ryun essentially copied Lydiard's principles except Lydiard advocated 100 miles per week and Ryun ran 110.

Dick Taylor was really the only Lydiard athlete to overtrain, Halberg claimed he only did 60 miles most weeks. Walker saw Snell's training diary and claimed that he often skipped the big miles (except before the 1964 Olympics).

Timmons failed to work out a strategy in 1968.

"Timmons failed to work out a strategy in 1968."

Interesting! I recently watched a video on Youtube about Ryun and Keino. In it Timmons is interviewed about all stages of Ryun's career - as one would expect. He suggests that the two of them had a disagreement in 1968 because Timmons felt that Ryun was paying too much attention to those "experts" who were saying that no sea level born athlete could run faster than, say, 3:39 at the altitude of Mexico City. Timmons felt super levels of fitness could overcome the natural advantages the Kenyans and others would have in Mexico and that Ryun was filling his head with too many negative thoughts.

1968 wasn't about Timmons failing to work out a strategy. It was about a multitude of different issues that came together at a very bad time. Keino ran, perhaps the greatest 1500 in history. Even if Jim had been in tip-top shape he would have had his hands full. Jim missed a significant amount of training due to a case of mono that he came down with in May of 1968. Then there was a conflict between coach and runner. Ryun began listening to other people like Daniels who suggested that Timmons methods may be counter-productive. Add to that Jim complaining about being tired (due to the then undiagnosed mono) and Timmons basically calling out Jim for being weak mentally. I believe if Ryun hadn't gotten sick and had trained at altitude through June, July and August as he had the year before when he set the mile and 1500 records he could have been more competitive in Mexico City... but Jim's silver medal is probably about the best he could have hoped for... Timmons did not fail him.

WHAT I SAID IS NOT ANY MORE COMPLETELY FALSE THAN YOURS IS COMPLETELY TRUE!!!

(I'm guessing you are younger than 40 and do not have the complete story.)

Craig Virgin said that Arthur Lydiard, since he is so widely known, was more inaccurately quoted than any coach alive. Craig also said that is true today and I agree with him! (I bet you never heard of Athletics West have you?)

So Ryun and Timmons actually had limited if any knowledge of what Lydiard did with his athletes. In fact FEW TODAY have a clue in what A. Lydiard did.

Arthur Lydiard is the only coach with an athletics running club named after him. His training knowledge is currently on display whenever Ethiopian runners compete! Do you know what they do different than any other country? Give me a call.

sellout wrote:

Everytime I read or hear about Jim Ryun, I think what could have been. Obviously, he achieved a lot.

But he never achieved what he thought he could.

I remember reading The Jim Ryun Story, which was published in 1966, after his first world record.

At the end of the book, they asked him what he planned for in the future.

One of his goals was a 3:45 mile. Imagine him running a 3:45 mile in, say, 1968!

I mean, look at his mark when he was 19. 3:51.3, still number 6 all time on the World Junior List.

Where would he have been if he didn't get so burnt out?

MILE

3:50.25 Alex Kipchirchir (Ken) 09/07/03

3:50.39 James Kwalia (Ken) 06/01/03

3:50.41 Noah Ngeny (Ken) 07/16/97

3:50.69 Cornelius Chirchir (Ken) 07/12/02

3:50.83 Nicholas Kemboi (Ken) 06/06/08

3:51.3 Jim Ryun (US) 07/17/66

3:51.68 ----Chirchir 08/23/02

3:53.15 Graham Williamson (GB) 07/17/79

3:53.29 Hilary Chenonge (Ken) 06/01/03

3:53.43 Alan Webb (US)

#1 still actually if you ask me.

Ryun's time was on dirt. Big difference.