Coach Cook shares his thoughts on what happened with Flannagan and Donohue

Donohue could possibly go sub-4 in the next few years as it is. but the fact is, if she safely lost a few pounds of muscle mass she would easily go under 4 minutes. According to the USATF website she is 5'7 and 143 pounds. I don't even know of any male world class distance runners of that size (even Webb is only 5'8 141 lbs)

I was waiting for someone to mention Donahue's weight. I think she could safely lose 10 lbs and be much quicker. She is very muscular. I don't see her being able to move up to any distance above the 1500. maybe that is what Cook was thinking when he made his comment. I wonder if she ever tried the multi-events in college. she might have been a natural.

Let's be honest, Donohue has over-achieved already. I completely agree with Cook; she will never run under 4 minutes. Never and will not come close. Actually it takes a lot more talent than she posesses. That's the reality. She has done well do run 4:05.

Is Chris Lukezic going to run under 3:30 for 1500? No, doesn't have the talent. Nothing wrong with that; he's a decent athlete.....but he isn't running under 3:30 no matter how hard he works. How about Will Lear? No, he won't either. He's a decent athlete also. Sorry to surprise you but it's not just about hard work guys.

Sorry it offends some of you but Cook is of course correct in his assessment of Donohue.

uh huh wrote:

I wonder if she ever tried the multi-events in college. she might have been a natural.

I believe she was a high school state champ in the javelin, correct? Marla Runyan was a decent heptathlete prior to being a mid/distance runner. Agree, she could get leaner and it could make a huge difference (maybe more mileage). Or try multi-events.

old pr wrote:

Donohue's 1500 pr is from '07, so she didn't even improve last year.

Also, has anyone ever seen Donohue and Eddie Lee in the same room?

Thanks for the laugh!

All seriousness aside, the only Olympic medalist I ever coached had an Erin-type body: size, power, and endurance. Thank goodness she and I--mostly she--had the good sense to call it quits with running and switch over to crew, where I did *not* coach her and where she got her OG medal.

It's really too bad that Erin isn't a couple inches taller. I bet she'd make an outstanding rower. She might anyway.

Also, found this interview from just about a year ago:

http://www.nyrr.org/races/pro/interview/2008/Donohue022108.asp

to be honest wrote:

I believe she was a high school state champ in the javelin, correct?

I thought she was All-ACC in the javelin as well, but I'm not really sure.

cripple runner wrote:

I also admire Cook's realism - few coaches are honest enough to give their athletes a realistic assessment of their potential, and even fewer athletes are honest enough to accept reality. Erin will squander her life chasing goals she doesn't have the ability to achieve.

Foolish. I don't even know why coaches still encourage goal oriented thinking - psychologically as outdated as working on "self-esteem". Coaching and training should be process oriented, not goal oriented. If you don't enjoy the process and don't get pleasure from it, the goals are barely going provide fleeting pleasure even if you achieve them. I would never have my athletes write goals - I would just say we are going to see how good you can get. Why not just leave it at that? Nobody can prognostic about what is realistic and what isn't.

I'll wager Donahue runs 4:00 at some point.

Cook acts like somebody stole his top secret plans for a nuclear device. Dude, you don't have any "secret system". Nothing in this sport is a secret. Unless you are talking about a BALCO-style secret system, that is.

I didn't see that the actual Malmo had already posted on this thread. Glad to see I pegged his sentiments about right.

uh huh wrote:

I was waiting for someone to mention Donahue's weight. I think she could safely lose 10 lbs and be much quicker. She is very muscular. I don't see her being able to move up to any distance above the 1500. maybe that is what Cook was thinking when he made his comment. I wonder if she ever tried the multi-events in college. she might have been a natural.

2 words...Snell and McMullen. I'd say a muscular build need not be a barrier to anything, especially in the mid-destances. Why do we figure women have to be half starved waifs but don't hold men to that standard? Webb is hardly a skinny little stick either.

Brian wrote:

uh huh wrote:

I was waiting for someone to mention Donahue's weight. I think she could safely lose 10 lbs and be much quicker. She is very muscular. I don't see her being able to move up to any distance above the 1500. maybe that is what Cook was thinking when he made his comment. I wonder if she ever tried the multi-events in college. she might have been a natural.

2 words...Snell and McMullen. I'd say a muscular build need not be a barrier to anything, especially in the mid-destances. Why do we figure women have to be half starved waifs but don't hold men to that standard? Webb is hardly a skinny little stick either.

And no one ever criticizes Webb for being overweight....

Fully agree, it was a rather cryptic quote.

And Washington Times ain't the Post, Moonies and all...

What I read from this article is that he had a frank discussion with Erin about goals - after he brought her to camp in Mexico, so he was fully planning to coach her going forward and help her to her best - and she became upset and disruptive to others he's coaching during camp. Maybe jealous or whatever starting from this converstation, but she clearly has biomechanic disadvantages to the now two other women he's coaching.

She is an incredible athlete, but a beast. To win the mile and javelin in ACC is just amazing. I dont know if she can sprint or jump like she can throw, but the hep may have been a good path for her. But Cook was the only one that would coach her after college (she was in Salazar and Gags country as a Nike intern)and helped her get to a career that we all envy.

1st, my honky. The suggestion that she should quit if she can't improve a lot more and medal is asinine and the post just goes downhill from there.

Donohue running sub 4:00 would be like Manzano running sub 3:30.

Brian wrote:

uh huh wrote:

I was waiting for someone to mention Donahue's weight. I think she could safely lose 10 lbs and be much quicker. She is very muscular. I don't see her being able to move up to any distance above the 1500. maybe that is what Cook was thinking when he made his comment. I wonder if she ever tried the multi-events in college. she might have been a natural.

2 words...Snell and McMullen. I'd say a muscular build need not be a barrier to anything, especially in the mid-destances. Why do we figure women have to be half starved waifs but don't hold men to that standard? Webb is hardly a skinny little stick either.

And Webb gets torched at the end of championship races by lighter (per height) and consequently quicker runners. McMullen was a beast yet he never went under 3:32/3:50 so it's not like he was exactly a medal threat, either. Snell mostly ran against white guys in an era featuring much less specialization than even women see today. The only woman in the middle distances in the past decade with a build similar to Donohue's and who was really good was Mutola, and Donohue's no Mutola.

All seriousness aside, the only Olympic medalist I ever coached had an Erin-type body: size, power, and endurance. Thank goodness she and I--mostly she--had the good sense to call it quits with running and switch over to crew, where I did *not* coach her and where she got her OG medal.

Ray Z., just out of curiosity, who was this Olympic rower? I rowed at Stanford with a few future Olympic rowers and did pre-elite camp with the national team one summer. Just wondering if I know her. Sorry for the deviation from running.

Your logic is flawed. Just because a lighter runner wins doesn't mean that lightness was the reason they won. They might just be better runners. You can complain about McMullen being heavy. He also got more out of his talent that just about anyone. How many 1:56/4:19 high schoolers go on to run sub 3:34? Now he might have been a 3:30 if he had a different body type. That doesn't mean if he dropped 10lbs with his current body frame he would have been a sub 3:30 dude.Bad Joke Time: He did run faster after lost all that toe weight. Less mass at the end of lever is a good thing:)

2 more words: not quite wrote:

Brian wrote:

2 words...Snell and McMullen. I'd say a muscular build need not be a barrier to anything, especially in the mid-destances. Why do we figure women have to be half starved waifs but don't hold men to that standard? Webb is hardly a skinny little stick either.

And Webb gets torched at the end of championship races by lighter (per height) and consequently quicker runners. McMullen was a beast yet he never went under 3:32/3:50 so it's not like he was exactly a medal threat, either. Snell mostly ran against white guys in an era featuring much less specialization than even women see today. The only woman in the middle distances in the past decade with a build similar to Donohue's and who was really good was Mutola, and Donohue's no Mutola.

OR wrote:

That doesn't mean if he dropped 10lbs with his current body frame he would have been a sub 3:30 dude.

I don't disagree and I never "complained about McMullen being heavy." The body type, which includes but is not limited to the weight on it, was the limiting factor, which you seem to believe as well. The same holds for Donohue. I also never contended that weight was the causation, I simply noted a strong correlation. Remember, I noted that Mutola did great with a similar build.