fUrCeOsNhN wrote:
txRUNNERgirl wrote:It doesn't make sense if the split was over money because she hasn't found a new coach. You would think that if money was the issue, she would already have another coach.
eh? please explain...
If you had a job that didn't pay you enough, you might look for a new job. Wouldn't you want to secure the new job before you quit the old one though? (Yes, I know the coaches are paid too, but this is just an example).
This still does not make sense. Your employer (job) pays you, where as you pay your coach.
From Shalane's quotes, I don't think the problem was that she wasn't able to spend enough time with Coach Cook. But assuming that was indeed the case, and she does want to find a new coach who WILL spend the time with her, her options are:
1. Find a coach in North Carolina. I can't think of any. She already ditched Whitlessey. Rollie Geiger wouldn't fit the bill. Anyone else have any ideas?
2. Move from North Carolina
3. Have a coach move to North Carolina.
Option 3 sounds like it would cost WAY too much money.
Shalane has the American Records at 5000 and 10,000 (and 3000 indoors) and an Olympic bronze medal, so she could retire today and be happy with her career. And it doesn't seem like she should rush into getting a new coach. But if she really does want to move up to the marathon, her options are limited. There aren't many good marathon coaches in the U.S. AlSal is not an option, because of Kara. I don't see Mahon being an option, because of Deena. Not sure who else is out there. In Shalane's defense, I think even Coach Cook would've told Shalane he isn't a marathon coach, so she'd be facing this problem no matter what.
Homebodies wrote:
AlSal is not an option, because of Kara.
AlSal is not an option because he has a poor level of success at coaching marathoners.
I don't see Mahon being an option, because of Deena.
That's no reason for Mahon to allegedly not be under consideration.
Why would Mahon not consider Shalane bc of Deena? I can't imagine Denna being a prima ballerina about having someone like Shalane. I also can't see Alsal turning down Shalane. Kara could only benefit and it appears Kara will be off following Boston. Kara starting a family would give Shalane a great opportunity to get with the program. The only ? with Alsal is I believe that Shalane spent some time training out in Portland before going with Cook and she most likely had the chance to go with Sal at that time.
The whole arrangement was odd from the beginning. Coaching via e-mail, telephone, etc., with only occasional in-person meetings is a tought way to work. Obviously, they made it work for the past year, but maybe ether or both grew tired of such a cumbersome arrangement. Both people have strong egos - that's part of why they are both successful.
As far as the whole issue of 'marathon training' goes, Cook understands how to apply his system to athletes from the 400 on up to and including mrathoning. I remember year ago he had a kid at Mason with pretty much no recognizable talent (Rob Lotwis) who ended up after a few years on training being close to 30 flat for 10K, and then continued on as a very competent road racer.
One thing I know for sure: Cook is a survivor, and if he wants to continue coaching, he'll do so and be successful. I've seen Flanagan in the hands of a somehat less competent coach/system (UNC), and remember lots of ups and downs.
Most of the speculation about why Shalane left Cook appears to be way off base. In a recent interview that Jess Barton did with Shalane, he asked Shalane about leaving Cook and this is her reply. Of course you can choose not to believe it, but her reply seems to be believable and reasonable reply.
Jess Barton: Why have you decided to leave John Cook?
Shalane: Erin Donohue and I are both not working with John Cook anymore. I think what it comes down to is that I'm bumbed out about it, I'm sad it did not work out. I wish that it would work out or could work out but we just had very different ideas and goals of where we wanted to take our careers. It's like if you were working for someone and you and your boss had completely different ideas of where you wanted the company to go, it would be hard to work together. That's the way I look at it. If you don't ultimately have the same dream and the same goal it's really hard to get things done. .. We just didn't see things the same way.
Are you serious?
There's no way Kastor could emotionally handle having Shalane Flanagan around every day. Way too much pressure. Not to mention that Kastor is on the way out and Shalane is the new Big Dog in this country.
Kastor would never stand for it and would go down in flames every day at practice with Shalane.
Runners are basically insecure. Kastor is no exception.
trail runners galore wrote:
Are you serious?
There's no way Kastor could emotionally handle having Shalane Flanagan around every day. Way too much pressure. Not to mention that Kastor is on the way out and Shalane is the new Big Dog in this country.
Kastor would never stand for it and would go down in flames every day at practice with Shalane.
Runners are basically insecure. Kastor is no exception.
What?
Why do you project so much of yourself onto Kastor?
trail runners galore wrote:
Are you serious?
There's no way Kastor could emotionally handle having Shalane Flanagan around every day. Way too much pressure. Not to mention that Kastor is on the way out and Shalane is the new Big Dog in this country.
Kastor would never stand for it and would go down in flames every day at practice with Shalane.
Runners are basically insecure. Kastor is no exception.
Who has had more success with 30 flat 10k runners moving up to the marathon?
The Hansons. Morgan, Obrien,Reneau, Arcinaga.......a bunch of 30 flat guys that have all run 2:15-2:16 for the marathon.
I am amazed to watch Davila a 33 minute 10k runner kill O'Neill a 31 minute 10k runner in the marathon.
Go Hansons
What? So Manhon is supposed to coach only one great runner at a time? Are you crazy? He is trying to build a dynasty and attract new blood that works well with the present blood. He is smart enough to prevent bad blood.
If Deena can't deal with the pressure then she surely won't be able to deal with the pressure associated with a comeback plan to be one of the best in the world.
Please, give Deena the respect she deserves. Now Kara one the other hand might have some trouble with not being the apple of Al's eye but if she wants to run fast she will get over it. All of these runners have gone through the college system and know the importance of the word teamwork.
Cook, You're the greatest track coach in the world! It's an honor to know you! On a serious note, Cook is no spring chicken, but his coaching has gotten better with age. Take another sport, basketball. It is well documented that Coach K at Duke had much more success when he was younger. Is he just not getting the talent anymore or has his coaching/recruiting lagged? The end result is teams that really aren't that great anymore. Cook has proven that he can succeed even at an older age. He is like a fine wine! Cheers to Coach Cook! Too bad he isn't in a sport where he would get the notoriety he deserves- in my opinion, he is a better coach than Coach K, and that is a very bold statement.
Someone with an axe to grind already poo-pooed this idea, but there is no better fit for what you numbskulls suppose are Shalane's circumstances:
Scott Simmons in Charlotte.
#1 - Geography: In North Carolina already and been taking college kids up to 6,000-feet within the state for altitude training
#2 - Turning 30:00 10kers into Successful Marathoner Progression: Cabada was at best a 30:00 minute guy when first coached by Simmons and then two years later broke the US record for 25k and had the fifth fastest marathon debut at 2:12 (also coached a guy called Justin Young to a 2:13 last year - 3rd fastest by an american last year)
#3- Female Success?: Check out the cover of the new Running Times. He has a 43 year old women running 32:50 for 10k!! That says a lot.
(I know when this guy's name comes up some jealous punk insinuates something or other.... just like Jon Cook!)
cook is STILL the man wrote:
Cook, You're the greatest track coach in the world! It's an honor to know you! On a serious note, Cook is no spring chicken, but his coaching has gotten better with age. Take another sport, basketball. It is well documented that Coach K at Duke had much more success when he was younger. Is he just not getting the talent anymore or has his coaching/recruiting lagged? The end result is teams that really aren't that great anymore. Cook has proven that he can succeed even at an older age. He is like a fine wine! Cheers to Coach Cook! Too bad he isn't in a sport where he would get the notoriety he deserves- in my opinion, he is a better coach than Coach K, and that is a very bold statement.
Im sure NCAA and NBA teams would love Cook coaching them through emails and phone calls. Then if they somehow managed to make the playoffs, show up in person for 6 weeks just so they dont forget what he looks like.
Yeah, But Cook still won the equivelant of the Super Bowl- no matter what the coaching arrangements were. Cook's performances at the Olympics far outshined AlSal's athletes, and AlSal is hands-on, so go figure. A little Cook goes a long way... How do you know how often Cook and Shalane were together? All hail the chief! Cook! Cook! Cook!
Agree.
hold your fire wrote:
Someone with an axe to grind already poo-pooed this idea, but there is no better fit for what you numbskulls suppose are Shalane's circumstances:
Scott Simmons in Charlotte.
#1 - Geography: In North Carolina already and been taking college kids up to 6,000-feet within the state for altitude training
#2 - Turning 30:00 10kers into Successful Marathoner Progression: Cabada was at best a 30:00 minute guy when first coached by Simmons and then two years later broke the US record for 25k and had the fifth fastest marathon debut at 2:12 (also coached a guy called Justin Young to a 2:13 last year - 3rd fastest by an american last year)
#3- Female Success?: Check out the cover of the new Running Times. He has a 43 year old women running 32:50 for 10k!! That says a lot.
(I know when this guy's name comes up some jealous punk insinuates something or other.... just like Jon Cook!)
Got nothing against Scott, but will he work for free?
She's also, by her own words, years away from a marathon.
hold your fire wrote:
He has a 43 year old women running 32:50 for 10k!!
"woman"
Cook spoke publicly for the first time from his training camp in San Luis Potosi, Mexico.
"[(Flanagan's husband Steve) Edwards] has always had insidious intent to coach," Cook said. "I was warned by a North Carolina coach to keep an eye on him. Of course, it is hard to hide workouts when you are intimately involved with athletes. [Edwards] has made his job his wife — period. He even films [workouts]. I was too trusting and they had a plan - learn, copy, use all my training system and then take over."
Cook said money also became an issue, but Edwards' influence took its toll.
"[Edwards] went from student to genius really quickly. No pun intended, but they have the Cook book and will do well," he said. "Flanagan has huge talent but many people involved - dad, husband, who the hell knows? All I know [is] my record [with Flanagan] is straight. ... We brought her from boot to bronze and obviously they have all they need to learn and we will see. I wish them luck, but to take others' workouts, film them and then move on is pretty parasitic. I am over it - surprised - but loyalty is hard to find."