I would have DQed a few of the girls for inappropriate shorts. Cross Country is not Black's Beach for Christ Sakes.
I would have DQed a few of the girls for inappropriate shorts. Cross Country is not Black's Beach for Christ Sakes.
You are the one that clearly needs to Shut the F Up.
First off if you knew anything about the runners in the region you would realize that Welling is a well respected runner and would not have died...he would have dropped back, but not died. He is very talented and told everyone that he was feeling fine and running his own race. Why would he stop his race simply because he is beating Bauhs? He was having a hell of a race and because your officials and biker led him the wrong way he had to suffer. Second of all, the intersection was blocked off even your own guys (UCSD runners) tried to go through, couldn't and continued on with the rest of us "dumbasses" Your two inch arrow on the post means shit when it is blocked by fans and officials. Stop trying to bring Pity to a school that deserves none. You wanted the race, you got it, you f***ed up. Admit your mistake and stop trying to turn it on the athletes.
A valuable lesson can be learned from the events that transpired last Saturday. I think that all the runners that went the wrong way in the race were dealing with much larger issues than running their own race. Had they done so, they would have realized that they were being tempted to stray from the right and good path, and instead would have chosen to avoid evil and do the correct thing. This mishap however has taught us that those first 60-70 runners are easily persuaded. That they looked in the face of temptation, and although questioning their choice of not following the course, will follow the misled flock like the sheep that they are. Can't you all see, the biker wasn't there to simply lead a running race, it was there to test our own moral conviction. It just goes to show that although those at the back of the race may be slow of foot, they are strong of mind and will lead a much more fulfilling life because they were the ones to lead the misled back to the promised land. Last place in the race is first place in life.
I'm sorry for my previous post. I have no life and need to learn to respect others.
I wondering what you are basing all this off of. Here's what I would base it off of. I think saying third is just a joke I'm sorry.
First Sun Dodger both WWU and AAU raced. 2Cheseto, Marko 7 Kangogo, Alfred 14 Parisien, Jacob 15 Kiplagat, David there is AAU top 4 and to note 3 and 4 where within 2 sec and then 22 Welling, Jordan. and then 29 Rottich, Paul. Well there's that.
Then you look at GNAC 1 Cheseto, Marko 2 Parisien, Jacob
3 Kangogo, then 5 Welling, Jordan, but to note kiplagat has finished within 5 sec every race with the rest of his teammates so he has proved it and since he wasn't as close time wise he just wasn't 100% and the only reason WWU was even close was because Paul died there and was their number 7 and you have no reason to assume he was going to do that at regional.
So just to make a note right here before I go on for a third place finish he would have to beat two more guys then at GNAC and hope everyone who messed up will again and not count anyone else into the equation. So I just don't find that likely unless he ran a extremely smart race, and going out in front on a unforgiving course isn't smart in my opinion when there are guys in the field who have beat you by over a minute in an 8k.
Now you look at AAU at this course this year.
2 Marko Cheseto 3 David Kiplagat 4 Alfred Kangogo 5 Jacob Parisien
Looks like sundodger at this point both time wise closeness and how they finished. Then you have 6 Jersain Torres 7 Jesse Morrill 8 Paul Rottich 9 Jake LeVieux
The only difference I see in the front is UCSD's number 2 a lot closer then WWU number 2 to AAU's number 5.Then if you look at avg pack times of both teams and they are about the same.
After seeing cold hard numbers and results I don't know how you can say third for Jordan. And furthermore, I don't know how you can say for sure what happens for third team with any confidence, I have my opinion on what would of happened but I cannot even say that for sure. How the teams are scored at the two mile mean NOTHING. The course is one that most the movement happens between mile 2 and 5 because if you don't get out hard it is too narrow to move tell then. And this is assuming that the way Jordan ran, which was out hard and in front of AAU is how he ran before and will not effect him. Did he do that the other two times??? ....
I'm not saying that it is anyone's fault, Im say that you need to stop saying disrespectful things about a school who did everything in their power to host the meet and do a good job. Its rude and is not sportsman like conduct which I'm pretty sure against NCAA rules during a race. I am also pretty sure it can get a team DQed... so what I'm saying is that everyone messed up, the staff, the runners, the coaches and the fans. No one is not at fault.
And furthermore, there where no flags actually blocking it they where on the ground and not put up either way yet. Because obviously when they flipped it they got through the second time fine.
It is UAA not AAU
"no one is at fault" makes no sense. it has to be someone's fault. and it was that volunteer at that turn whos fault it was. he didnt move the fans and he didnt have the flags in proper position, whether they were on the ground or not, they should have been blocking the path the runners went down, and the turn should have been cleared of fans. That was their job and they didnt do it.
actually, i misread that. "no one is not at fault" still doesnt make sense. it was that one guys fault.
Ok sorry. It makes sense now. You actually do make some good points in this thread "Shut the F up".
David Wilkey wrote:
I would have DQed a few of the girls for inappropriate shorts. Cross Country is not Black's Beach for Christ Sakes.
Your reply is worthless without pics!
UAA wrote:
It is UAA not AAU
God, thanks for correcting this. Couldn't even read that guys whole post...
Shut the F up wrote:
I'm not saying that it is anyone's fault, Im say that you need to stop saying disrespectful things about a school who did everything in their power to host the meet and do a good job. Its rude and is not sportsman like conduct which I'm pretty sure against NCAA rules during a race. I am also pretty sure it can get a team DQed... so what I'm saying is that everyone messed up, the staff, the runners, the coaches and the fans. No one is not at fault.
And furthermore, there where no flags actually blocking it they where on the ground and not put up either way yet. Because obviously when they flipped it they got through the second time fine.
Actually, the host is responsible for the course being not only marked but also managed. If they put an incompetent official or did not have adequate crowd control. It IS their fault. Since you opened the door to NCAA rules, nowhere does it say the runners are responsible for knowing the course. A runner should be able to show up without ever having run the course or having seen a map and run the course. To say the runners messed up is an absolutely untenable stance. To say the host screwed up is 100% correct. There should be penalties against the institution for such flagrant apathy.
The runners knew the course and most knew they were supposed to turn, but can you really expect a runner to take that inititive and duck under the flagging and plow into rows of spectators when the lead bike and everyone else is going straight?
agreed!! What are we going to do? Throw spectators and officials out of the way? Cause that has always been successful!!
also, from my experience, when something goes wrong the officials clamp down on those who are not at fault, because they don't want to punish their fellow officials who they rightly see as teammates. instead usatf clamp down on the crews, media, and athletes. case in point, the hammer at hayward field. when a local oregon-base official got wrapped by the hammer cable, then sued tom jordan/pre classic, the crews and media were punished in subsequent years and were barred from the field, the media can no longer have good camera positions for the hammer. in 2005 an official in his 70's died at home depot at the usa nationals warmup friday afternoon practice after being struck in the head by a 16 pound shot. he had alzheimers, the california dmv had taken his drivers license away, yet usatf let him on the field that practice day. the next day, the crews and media were pruned to a minimum, but, usatf did not barr senile officials nor officials that are very elderly, shielding their own.
(The above is what I posted a few days ago on page 4 of this thread). Yup, what you say is what they always do. They will punish someone else for their mistake. In this case, my prediction is UCSD will close the course to coaches and fans. USATF track officials always punish the crews and the media when one of their elderly officials get wacked by a discus, or steps onto the track slamming into someone in the process of a PR. Coaches will have to step up immediately and let their thoughts be known to UCSD and NCAA. My suggestion would be to hire a crew of loggers from the State of Oregon to come down and clear cut a 3 meter wide trail and make the wooded area safe for passage. Who better else to do it than people who live in the trees everyday of the year. Coaches and the NCAA, UCSD, etc. would have to oversee the modifications to make sure fans, parents, and the runners are safe and that large cross meets can be held at UCSD. We should all put our heads together on this and fix the situation. San Diego County is a great place for cross. We all love the weather there. It's like Hawaii on the cheap with the added benefit of tons of great Mexican food.
Neato Gang makes most inteligent and true assessment of the day! Props.
GNAC Pride wrote:
Seriously, there needs to be some kind of reprimand for UCSD. In the least, they should be barred from any championship race for 10+ years. Crap like this ruins seasons, and you sure don't have the guys run another 10k...
Poor planning, poor execution, and poor decision making.
Dude just because the race got messed up doesn't mean that UCSD's racing squad- who had no control over the race screw-up because they too were running in the mess- should be barred from competition. That is the most immature suggestion ever. Yes, it was a royal screw-up, and yes everybody wants to point fingers and be pissed off and say how it was soo unfair to them, but in reality, this affected all of the men running, not just you or your team. If anything, the re-run separated the men from the boys, and the best teams from the weaker ones. It was an incredible screw-up, and the situation sucked, but UCSD didn't even make it to nationals anyways, so what the heck are you whining about. Secondly, poor decision making? I believe it was the head of the region, not the UCSD coach, who made the decision to rerun the 10k in it's entirety. So just calm down and realize that you're probably never going to have to run at that place again since I'm betting they aren't going to be allowed to host anything for a very long time.
O meters from turn wrote:
10 Meters from Wrong Turn wrote:I was standing right there, where the wrong turn took place. I saw the bike approaching and noticed that the flagging was still across the path where the runners were to take a sharp 90 degree turn. It was happening so fast, I could not believe my eyes. Shame on you UC San Diego for trying to blame this first on the fans and then on the runners themselves. This is a very confusing course, no matter what the other 2 (probably San Diego folks who know the course) people say. If the staff would have just moved the 4' flagging across the path and forced the right hand turn, everything would have been fine, but instead, when the biker knew where to turn the official said, no go straight, the flagging was IN THE WAY of the turn. After it happened, everyone seemed to just stand there in shock, not knowing what to do. So about 60 runners went by, then there was a "break" in the runners, and someone moved the flagging and all of the slowest runners went the correct way. By then the faster runners were told to turn around. It was the most confusing mess I have ever seen. Runners looked like they were swimming upstream against the current. Like a giant running mosh pit. If you look at the videos you can see how dense the forest is, and runners were desperate and trying to jump through those bushes and trees to make their way back to the front. The top 2 runners stated that when they turned them around, they were in dead last in the race. It was absolute kaos. When the slowest runners were told to go the correct way, I said, hey well that is not fair because now they are in the lead. And a San Diego guy told me, too bad, the runners are suppose to know the course, it is their fault (once again someone else's fault besides San Diego's). Many fans had spent a lot of money to make the trip to cheer on their favorite runner. And then for San Diego to say "it is a NCAA rule that no one is now allowed to go into the forest to cheer on the runners", what? Again, blaming it on the fans. After all of this, you would think that San Diego would have made some type of apology to the runners for putting them through all of this. But not one word at the awards ceremony. It was like it never even happened, it was all just a bad dream.
Ten meter's version is pretty much right on with a few missing details. I was right on the corner. A few of us fans knew the runners needed to make a right turn, and set ourselves to allow the runners to make the turn. About 50 seconds before the runners arrived, a woman in a Chico State polo shirt arrived and told us to get out of the way because the runners were going to go straight through. We told her we were fairly sure the runners were going to the right, as they had done at the Triton Invitational. We argued for awhile, but gave in as someone yelled the bike was coming. As the runners came by it was obvious the UCSD runners knew they should be turning as two of their runners started to the right but turned back to join the wrong way race. At that point, as discussed above, chaos began.
I feel bad because I should have pushed my point harder, but I wasn't one hundred percent sure.
All this said ,the MAIN problem was there was no race official at the most important, least intuitively obvious corner. I'm sure somebody was assigned there, but screwed up and didn't show. All the other corners had numerous yellow shirted officials moving ribbons. I feel like the UCSD race officials had it setup correctly, but a particular corner official(s), just made a really bad mistake.
I agree. The course was really well marked everywhere with chalk and flags, and was regulated in all places EXCEPT this one. I think that it was negligence on the part of one person that screwed up this turn. Added to this, there were people yelling and pointing runners in the opposite direction and blocking the correct path. It's amazing that one person forgetting to turn flags can have such big repercussions.
bw wrote:
When I read the quote of the day, I thought to myself, 'wow that really sounds like it might be UCSD!'
I ran on those trails every day for the two years I was there for grad school and ran in the Triton Invite in 2006 and 2007. I second all the motions to never have another championship meet there again (10 years isn't enough IMO). The course is awful, WAY too narrow, confusing, and obviously poorly run by meet officials. I'm no fan of Rupp Certification, but that course just plain old sucks. Sharp turns at the bottom of very steep hills, lots of sand, and extreme difficulty in passing after the first mile. Cross Country courses should be hard, not annoying.
This IS cross country racing we are talking about...not road racing. There is nothing more annoying to me then going to a "cross country race" only to find the entire thing is flat and on asphalt with little to no technicalities. I would take this course with its rocks, sand, and *gasp* HILLS over many other courses that our team has to run. Cross country running isn't supposed to be leisurely or easy. Its supposed to be difficult. That's part of the fun. Its what makes our sport so insane compared to others.
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
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