Age Group Cheats at NYC

wejo wrote:

I'm not talking about the type like the woman I saw in 2001 who got handed a small bag by her coach/manager before drug testing and then insisted she had to immediately go to the porta john (I can't believe I didn't make a bigger deal of this. I notified some people with the race but was too exhausted at the time to figure out who it was)...

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Was she just an age-group (non-elite) runner? If so, that's just sad. Well, it's sad either way.

11/10

I too, couldn't believe all those running on the sidewalk to cut the corners on two of the turns in LIC. The only other guy that I saw running the course was an master/senior.

On another note, the age group place isn't arranged by offical time. Would this be b/c they used gun time for the age group placing?

To get splits at mile marks 16-26, go to

http://athletetracker.ingnycmarathon.org/

After you select the runners (you can select more than 1), hit the "Track Results" tab, and the top row shows splits every 5k and the bottom row splits for miels 16-26

I contacted Alan Miller, the real M60 winner at the NYC Marathon, and he graciously responded with his story:

http://masterstrack.com/blog/002883.html

He credits the M60 finisher behind him for triggering the investigation that led to "Ermes Luppi" being deleted from the results.

ken

Marine Corps removed the original winner of the Female 65-69 AG from their results. She had several missed timing mats and had posted a major recent best.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

i phoned Ermes Luppi and he mentioned he wrote an official explanation on:

http://www.podisti.org/webzine/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14386&Itemid=476

I have never run NYCM.

Both from reading the explanation and from talking to Ermes i got this sense of running newyorkcitymarathon not just being about "earning/deserving" a bib but of "buying" a ticket to a fantastic sporting event. Where the borderline between being spectator and participant has become very blurry and dominated by commercial/financial variables.

Not a good thing, nor bad. Reality.

So come marathon time, Ermes was in no shape (bad back) to run and being in the running-shop business (as from his official website) he had no problem giving his bib to another runner (much, younger and faster) - like a ticket to a concert. To a runner "who was in condition have a good time."

As he also recounts about another when he did it with a slower runner - much slower (5:30) than his average of 4:00 - and nobody even noticed.

With the guy winning the 60-64 agegroup (who reportedly was not even the Incerti guy but yet another person running with both Luppi and Incerti's chip!!) it created an obvious problem that ticked the rightful winner off.

And so it should have. Big congratulations to the rightful winner and we can all be glad a wrong was righted.

Luppi admits his actions, as he states in his post (above), but alas blames it on the impossibility to change names at the last minute. Quite frankly the reasoning doesn't hold water at all. Even, if i am not mistaken i heard that nycm bibs are sold - just like concert tickets - on ebay or the nights before the marathon in hotel lobbies like scalpers do outside concert halls. And that doesn't seem right either.

Could be a wrong feeling but it seems lose-lose situation to me. Whichever way you look at it. But I have this huncha that while Luppi was caught he is not the only culprit.

On this forum I myself admitted that for what i perceived to be a much nobler cause (not just running entertainment)- to accompany a dear friend during his first marathon - I ran the Florence Marathon in 2007 with someone else's bib.

And ended up not having my name on my first and fastest ever barefoot marathon, 3:27:45, real time. Which is ok. I know what i did. But...

Anyway, at the time i asked the race directors if they could validate the result for a personal want, but they said they could not.

Lesson learned, no great shakes. And while I was pretty certain that I didn't do anybody any harm or injustice, the whole incident did leave me with a bit of a sour taste.

Never too late to re-learn. And I made my wow. Don't run with somebody else's name. Not even just once. In the end, it is quite self-defeating , is it not?

There is no point.

Respectfully, congratulations to the Real Winners.

The Point Could Be.

There has got to be a process to inform NYC Marathon officials for people who sign up for the race, pay some big $$$, and then decide not to run?

I don't think the entry fee should go to waste, but certainly don't want the results screwed up b/c without giving information obviously it does. Is there a way to have the name and info switched by competitors if this happens?

Also...after reading all the items here, you cannot really call Mr. Luppi a cheater. Nowhere does it say he accepted the any prizes and as noted, he wasn't even there. So if there was not even an attempt on his part to defraud the race...maybe people should just lighten up.

I ran sub 2:30 in New York (just not this year). It is easy to cheat if you want a decent time. Put your chip on another runner that will run about the time you want to run. Then run the first 16 (without a chip) at any pace that you want. When reaching first avenue, head directly to the park. It is a left hand turn and less than a half mile. Wait at the park at the 40k mark until your runner with your chip comes by. Jump in and run the last 2k with that runner. When crossing the finish line (together) your time will be recorded and you can even order a picture with you crossing the finish line with your time on the clock.

172 156 James Mcilroy (31) , IRL 2:41:52 0:17:56 0:35:33 0:53:22 1:11:37 1:15:30 1:30:10 1:48:33 2:09:31 2:32:32 6:10 2:41:52 77.2

I don't know if it was this guy, but there was a guy wearing an Ireland jersey that I began to catch up to well past the Bronx and passed on 5th Avenue (I finished well over a minute ahead of him), and this is the only guy from Ireland in that category. He was cutting every corner in that section before 5th avenue where there are many turns.

Needless to say I was pleased to catch him and leave him way behind despite his cheating. Again, it may not have been the guy above, but he's the likeliest possibility.

jonesy. wrote:

172 156 James Mcilroy (31) , IRL 2:41:52 0:17:56 0:35:33 0:53:22 1:11:37 1:15:30 1:30:10 1:48:33 2:09:31 2:32:32 6:10 2:41:52 77.2

I don't know if it was this guy, but there was a guy wearing an Ireland jersey that I began to catch up to well past the Bronx and passed on 5th Avenue (I finished well over a minute ahead of him), and this is the only guy from Ireland in that category. He was cutting every corner in that section before 5th avenue where there are many turns.

Needless to say I was pleased to catch him and leave him way behind despite his cheating. Again, it may not have been the guy above, but he's the likeliest possibility.

Is this James McIlroy the middle distance guy (started out representing Ireland before representing UK&NI)? He retired this year from 800m running, and the age is right (he turns 32 in December, according to his wiki entry).

Agree "cheat" for Luppi sounds a tad harsh.

But how would you call describe possibly contributing to a runner going with two chips neither of which is his, one of which sheds confusion on a real winner, in the most prestigious marathon in the world?

Maybe not Athletic cheating, as in gaining a reward from an athletic performance, but something is pretty darned irregular...

Why'd he even wear the chip? If you know you're not the real owner of the number you're going to wear, don't even pick up the chip. That way you don't have to turn it back in, plus it would save confusion of this sort.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Was she just an age-group (non-elite) runner? If so, that's just sad. Well, it's sad either way.

If you had any respect for age-group winners, you would have chosen your words more carefully. Maybe one day you'll get old and slow and have to settle for just age group awards.

I don't think that Mcilroy was the guy cutting the corners, as I looked up his photos and he seemed to have a local track club jersey, not an Ireland jersey. I passed at least 42 people from 35K to the finish, so hard to tell who it was.

Yeah, what's the big deal?

Leave him alone!

Beyond me except for the quirks of human nature. With a roadracing event that has turned into possibly the largest, global, trendiest, "catwalk" it just might be worth doing even if only just to be there, on the course, type deal...There's loads of people who when they find out you like running, they ask you if you have run NYCM. And if you say you haven't they act sort of disappointed for you...So why not run with two chips? From what i sensed in talking to Luppi (as he writes in his post) is that:chip 1: was for the runner who just wanted to run on the famous course and was not able to get a bib himself. He wanted to "do" the course, from beginning to end, the official way, any way possible. So pick up the chip of someone who has to drop out;chip 2: this same runner does a friend of similiar running ability a favour, maybe to officialize a "credible" fast time he could not run himself in the mother of all marathons. It feels great to say you came 127th out of 40,000 as opposed to say 74th out of 1400. NYCM is lowend indexed.As a wide-spectrum tourist attraction it makes perfect sense.

cmon man wrote:

Why'd he even wear the chip? If you know you're not the real owner of the number you're going to wear, don't even pick up the chip. .

Immaturity wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Was she just an age-group (non-elite) runner? If so, that's just sad. Well, it's sad either way.

If you had any respect for age-group winners, you would have chosen your words more carefully. Maybe one day you'll get old and slow and have to settle for just age group awards.

Huh? I did not mean it that way at all. During the off-seasons I was an age group winner. These days I'm not even that good.

What I said was sad is that this woman was seemingly doping. Not that doping is ever okay, but if she isn't going to win prize money, what's the point?

I've run a mini that had a process in place where you could sell your bib. I think it costs $10 to do so and you could put your name on a list if you didn't already have a buyer. A local running store took care of the paperwork. You had to work out with the buyer who would pay the cost but it worked out nicely for a friend of mine that got injured shortly before the race.

The whole issue could have been avoided if the mega marathons had a process in place to handle transfers.

You think most cheaters dope for money? There are much better ways to make money than through distance running.