Ritz ran 3:42 as a freshman!! and a f*#n 13:27. He is much stronger now and seems to finish harder than ever before. He will run 3:38 this year and drop that to 3:35 in the next couple of year, he may not have Bekel/Geb speed, but he has the wheels and has the potential to be in the mix.
ritzenhein is going to need a boatload of endurance. remember, geb's a 49.9 runner, and nicholas kemboi is stuck at 51.0.
In reply to the comment about international competition
People continuously forget Ritz's bronze that he had at World Cross, and then his 24th place showing at the men's 12k the year after. My friends, just the other day, the great Bob Kennedy said that for someone to finish in the top 10 of that race is huge, and Ritz finished 24th, as a 19 year old, I believe. Now, that's not the same as a 19 year old Bekele winning, but regardless, that is huge. As for not racing great runners from East Africa? Let me list some names that he raced against, with some times:
2001 World Junior
Bekele Kenenisa ETH 25:04
Lebo Duncan KEN 25:37 0:33
Ritzenhein Dathan USA 25:46 0:42
Kemboi Nicholas KEN 25:52 0:48
Recognize anyone up on the top of that list? Or how about Kemboi, I know I've seen that name somewhere. Lebo, probably. They all run really fast and Ritz ran through the mud with them, making a huge charge over the last mile or so if I remember correctly.
2002 Senior 12k
Bekele Kenenisa ETH 34:52
Yuda John TAN 34:58
Talel Wilberforce KEN 35:20
Limo Richard KEN 35:26
Kamathi Charles KEN 35:29
Chepkurui Albert KEN 35:32
Goumri Abderrahim MAR 35:43
Kifle Yonas ERI 35:47
Mitei Enock KEN 35:49
Gharib Jaouad MAR 35:57
Abdirahman Abdihakem USA 36:03
Mezgebu Assefa ETH 36:06
Sghyr Ismaïl FRA 36:07
Keflezighi Mebrahtom USA 36:09
Essaïd Mustapha FRA 36:10
Jifar Habte ETH 36:11
Bayissa Fita ETH 36:14
Ramadhani Samson TAN 36:16
Henriques Eduardo POR 36:20
Alemayehu Lemma ETH 36:25
Berioui Saïd MAR 36:27
Ndayisenga Jean-Berchmans BDI 36:29
Lahssini El Hassan FRA 36:30
Ritzenhein Dathan USA 36:31
Sure, Bekele beat Ritz by a good 1:49 over 12k, but look at that, he freakin finished 24th. Now I'm not saying he can beat Bekele here or whatever, but give the guy some credit where the credit is due. He's raced at a higher international level than enyone else in the field, except maybe Robison, who ran a bunch of races this summer. And the really sick part, is that he's done well. I think I remember reading somewhere that he was the second finisher in the race of Non-African desent. Take that or leave it, it's just a point.
yeah, i saw that a while back. kemboi, who ritzenhein beat in ostend ran 26:30 this year.
...thereby my entire agrument about Ritz running against high levels of competition is pulled out from underneath me. Once again you prove your obvious superiority to all of us on this board with your special link to Lydiard.
Wow, in one year Bekele spread the gap on Ritz by a minute and within two years Kemboi gapped him by nearly 2 minutes. Hmmmmm...You got to at least wonder how Ritz would do in a 10K verse those guys if he had a DrFerrari to push his HCrit to just under 60 like those guys may be doing. Those improvemets have to be suspect at least a little bit.
HA HA HA. GO Biola!!!
Who cares whether or not Ritz races 800's? I don't feel the two are necessarily connected, so long as he continues to work on his speed.
Monty
that's fine. i think it's important, but it's no big deal.
Black,
I'll revise that - UNLESS he turns his attention to 10,000 and the marathon in the future, then he will run 12:50. Too many people seemed concerened with RAW speed. He has enough speed - strength does a lot, and I say he is strong enough to get down there unless he ups his focus on the longer distances. Who would have thought BK would run 12:58? I never would have, and Ritz I think has even more talent.
12:50 is what, somwehere in the neighborhood of 4:06 per 1600 meters? that's 61 high per lap.
now i think ritz has tons of talent,, too, but he'll need to run a heck of a lot faster than 4:00 for the mile if 12:50 is gonna be possible. didn't bk get done to around 3:35 or even faster for 1500? i'm a big believer in strength, too, but i'll wager that ritz needs to run at least 3:53 for the mile before 12:50 will be possible.
i'm just guessing here and welcome more knowledgeable opniuons.
12:50 is what, somwehere in the neighborhood of 4:06 per 1600 meters? that's 61 high per lap.
now i think ritz has tons of talent,, too, but he'll need to run a heck of a lot faster than 4:00 for the mile if 12:50 is gonna be possible. didn't bk get done to around 3:35 or even faster for 1500? i'm a big believer in strength, too, but i'll wager that ritz needs to run at least 3:53 for the mile before 12:50 will be possible.
i'm just guessing here and welcome more knowledgeable opniuons.
Bob's best 1500m was 3:38 (1991). His best mile was 3:56 (1994). Unless those times were grossly out of date in 1996, Ritzenhein is a guy who could run 12:55/26:50.
Black,
Just to be a stickler, 12:50 is about 4:08 pace, not 4:06 pace.
Not so sure why people think Ritz doesn't have wheels. Dude ran a 3:42 1500 as a true freshman when that isn't anywhere near his event and he hardly ever ran it. Now he's a year and a half older, seemingly stronger than then, and my guess is he could run under 3:40 this spring if he jumped in the right 1500. There's no magic formula of 1500 time or 800 time in order to run a fast 5,000. I'll just look at his 5,000 PR and the age at which he set it - 13:27. Pretty stinkin' fast, and certainly within striking distance of 12:50 for that guy.
The fact that people mention people like Ryan Hall in the same category as Ritz shows that people aren't giving Ritz the respect he deserves. Ritz could whip Ryan Hall every day and twice on Sunday brother! Dathan Ritzenhein is the real deal, and he is a far better talent than anyone the US has produced in a long long time. Sage and Hall and and and and and...they all need to just accept that they can't compete with this guy when he's healthy.
In three or 4 years when Ritz runs 12:49.92 then I'll come back here and tell you I told you so.
Doesn't care about XC wrote:
FLxccoach wrote:Repeat of Foot Locker Nationals a couple of years back.
Ritz 1st
Hall 3rd
Could be true. But in a few years, Hall will probably eat Ritz's lunch on the track. Hall has much, much more speed. He ran 1:51, easily, with negative splits in HS, while not concentrating on the 800. Ritz didn't have, and won't have, that kind of speed. Hall has more potential on the track, and the track is the place runners need to succeed to gain attention in this country.
Speed doesn't help you if your 15 secs down.
trackhead, are you employed by Lydiard? you show your ignorance every time you post that link. it would be another story if you at one time ran 20-minutes for 5k and then ran 12:57. we'd then listen to you. but you can still be defeated by most high school boys and many collegiate women. drop the damn link, it's not working for you, OBVIOUSLY!
trackhead wrote:
Bob's best 1500m was 3:38 (1991). His best mile was 3:56 (1994). Unless those times were grossly out of date in 1996, Ritzenhein is a guy who could run 12:55/26:50.
trackhead, I agree. Not only can he run 12:55, but chop off more time and then you'll end up where he will. Why is everyone so obsessed with 1500 time or mile time or 800 time when it comes to running the 5,000, especially for Ritz? Ritz took on the greatest high school miler in the history of the US, and he just destroyed him at 5,000 meters, adn 10,000 meters in college too. So what if Ritz is never a world class miler? He ran 4:08 in high school which was good but not great, but look where he is when it comes to the 3200? He is obviously suited for the longer distance. 12:50 - Ritz will get there for certain, and then, the sky's the limit.
... wrote:
trackhead, are you employed by Lydiard? you show your ignorance every time you post that link. it would be another story if you at one time ran 20-minutes for 5k and then ran 12:57. we'd then listen to you. but you can still be defeated by most high school boys and many collegiate women. drop the damn link, it's not working for you, OBVIOUSLY!
Now I'll never drop it.
flagpole,
i think that 800m/1500m ability is important, however, seeing guys like Gebrselassie with 3:31/3:33 speed and super-endurance, or Bob with 3:38 and super-endurance I think that sub-13 and sub-27 is definitely possible off of 3:38 ability.
FLAGPOLE wrote: ?Who would have thought BK would run 12:58? I never would have, and Ritz I think has even more talent.?
Who says Ritz has ?more talent? (besides you) than BK?? BK WON the NCAA?s X-C as a frosh, Ritz came in 4th. And if I remember correctly, BK had a lot lower ?lifetime mileage base? (I threw that one in for you Trackhead ;-) ) going into college than Ritz did. BK always said he was a 40-50 mile guy in HS, while Ritz was a 70-80+ guy. BK stepping into college and winning NCAA?s X-C showed you the talent BK had. Ritz? talent is, at best, as good, not better. So breaking 13:00 will be a HUGE accomplishment for him. Breaking 12:50? Ain?t gonna happen.
FLAGPOLE wrote: ?In three or 4 years when Ritz runs 12:49.92 then I'll come back here and tell you I told you so.?
Ritz ain?t going from as far behind Bekele as he is now, to breathing down the backs of the likes of Bek, El G, Geb, etc in a few years. Ain?t gonna happen.
Ritz should NOT make the mistake BK made, and specialize in the 5k (or even 10K ). Marathon, marathon, marathon. BK had 2:06/7 potential for sure. He had a great shot at a marathon medal. His shot at a 5k medal was a very outside one at best with his kick.