German's coach: 4:00.29 off of no speed work (!)

cool dude wrote:

Where's your evidence? How are you going to back that up?

I'll just counter with an equally supportless claim:

Dont get me wrong. I do believe that not everyone can be the best. But I do not think that the genetic, physical limitations affect us until we get close to the world record level. For instance, any normal human being can break 5 in the mile. I don't think that everyone can break 3:50 in the mile. Down there is where the little imperfections might take hold, but to say that it's impossible for some normal people to run under 4ish for the mile or 9 for the 2 mile is absurd.

twas indeed a very supportless claim

sub 4 and sub 9 are worlds apart, so are sub 5 and 3:50

Watcher of the meet wrote:

You are either the dumbest person on the planet or you are the smartest (brilliant troll).

I suspect "troll"--and agree with the brilliance--but that is a sentiment that an astounding number of people honestly share.

Sorry, gang, but unless you picked the right grandparents you will never--never--be a world's champion, regardless of how hard you work, how well coached you are, how "mentally tough" you are, etc. Never.

Ultimate success in distance running depends just as much on talent as ultimate success in sprinting does. (And that success in sprinting depends just as much on optimal training as that success in distance running does.) The only difference is that it is sometimes easier to spot sprinting talent.

[And yes, I did graduate work in physiology so I do actually know what I'm talking about. If you truly need references, use Google.]

cool dude wrote:

that is the worst method of conclusion. seriously? the kid has been training his aerobic system from the time he was little (playing soccer and basketball). And as far as the "talent"/"genetics" to handle so much work? That also comes from being on his feet so much doing those other sports for years. Also, many running injuries come from weaknesses and imbalances. Playing basketball and soccer works just about every muscle from the stomach down. That's where he got his durability. The rest of the difference is hard, smart work. There are no mythical magical genes. We are all very very similar (barring disabilities).

You're right. I bet if German decided to become a sprinter, he could run the 100 in 10.15. Because there are no "mythical magical genes," and "we are all very very similar," right?

I hate to threadjack this "nature vs. nurture" debate, but here is a simple appreciation video of Germans' breakthrough performance with regard to the national consciousness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy0K9qA1m94

of course there are more talented people.. its apart of being human, everyone is made different. thats like saying that anyone can decide to be the next shakespear or anyone can play the piano like beethoven. Some people have natural gifts. i.e. West africans and jamacains are likely to have 80% fast twitch fibers compared to an average australian or american with 50/50. so no. german could never run 10.15 for the 100m. he could probably get under eleven with years of training and a moderate amount of luck. His gift is distance running.

Wow German's coach says he runs 12 workouts in 6 days and 60 miles, or mid 60's. So all the HS guys ask, "So thats

like 5 each workout!" It used to be 50 to 60 now we are at mid 60's. So lets see he warms up with what about a jog of a mile...and maybe mile cool down. Thats 4 a day! 6 X 4 =24! So now were down to what 38 a week! Thats conservative on the warm up and cools.

I thought all you posters on here were big time runners. If you have trained as a HS guy and RAN under 8:50 as a High Schooler then you know darn well what I am saying here. Then to run 4:00 and 8:34, get the hell out of here! At least Ritz admitted to 85/90 with spike weeks well above that. This is like hush hush on Obama's middle name...well I 'll just say it..WELL over a 100 a week..well over a 100 a week.

letsbehonest wrote:

This isn't a big deal. All you need to do to run 4 minutes for the mile (assuming the natural ability is there) is get really really really aerobically fit, and relatively efficient at 60 second pace. It's not hard to get efficient at 60 second pace, tons of people can do 10 or 15 times a 200 at 30, that's all it takes. It's when people get caught up in "hard speed work" that you screw things up. Really, he just needs more of the same to improve at the mile, not add in the speed work, especially if as his coach says he's not a blazing fast guy like Webb or Ryun.

I guess all middle distance runners in history from Bannister to El G have been doing the wrong training, then...

ufckwit wrote:

of course there are more talented people.. its apart of being human, everyone is made different. thats like saying that anyone can decide to be the next shakespear or anyone can play the piano like beethoven. Some people have natural gifts. i.e. West africans and jamacains are likely to have 80% fast twitch fibers compared to an average australian or american with 50/50. so no. german could never run 10.15 for the 100m. he could probably get under eleven with years of training and a moderate amount of luck. His gift is distance running.

Yes. That was exactly my point. How obvious does sarcasm have to be for you to get it?

"The rest of the difference is hard, smart work. There are no mythical magical genes."

" but to say that it's impossible for some normal people to run under 4ish for the mile or 9 for the 2 mile is absurd."

In a sea of stupid things said, these two gems really stand out. I mean that is really an honor, to have two of the dumbest statments made on LR is really something.

You really think that the only difference between running SUB9 and the typical HS runner is miles?? THAT is CRAZZZY.

EZ10Miler wrote:

You really think that the only difference between running SUB9 and the typical HS runner is miles?? THAT is CRAZZZY.

i didn't say miles. i said hard smart work.

yeah just go out and do your "hard smart work" and see how close you get to Mr. Fernandez.

To dismiss the role natural talent plays in the greatest athletes is delusional.

I'd be willing to be that even on your track or xc team there are guys that no matter how many miles or who coached them they would never be good enough to even be a decent college runner. They dont have the goods.

I'm all about people maximizing their potential, but some people's max is far far far greater than other people's max. Athleticly we are not created equal.

what are you calling "talent" and "goods"? I'd be more ready to believe the natural talent thing if someone would explain it to me in real detail instead of explaining that eclipses happen because the gods are angry.

Reasons for my argument: people aren't doing/haven't found the optimal training for themselves, poor diet, poor rest/sleep/recovery, bad form, lack of mental toughness, lack of confidence.

natural talent is like this:

you can put the same gas in a porche and a ford pick up, but the pick ups top end ain't close to the porche.

some people are porches some are fords.

cool dude wrote:

what are you calling "talent" and "goods"? I'd be more ready to believe the natural talent thing if someone would explain it to me in real detail instead of explaining that eclipses happen because the gods are angry.

Reasons for my argument: people aren't doing/haven't found the optimal training for themselves, poor diet, poor rest/sleep/recovery, bad form, lack of mental toughness, lack of confidence.

What you don't understand is that for every German Fernandez, there are 1000 high school athletes that are training just as hard/smart as he is.

Once you've run miles upon miles for years upon years, and you're still not elite, then you'll understand. If you haven't done it, then you can continue to live in your fantasy world.

cool dude wrote:

I'd be more ready to believe the natural talent thing if someone would explain it to me in real detail

OK, here is a partial list:

lung capacity

heart volume

artery size

normal hematocrit

mitochondrial density

foot length

leg length as a proportion of height

size of gastrocs

flexibility

All of these factors and others affect the ability to utilize oxygen to generate energy and efficiently translate it into running motion. Someone who is born with better levels of all of the above will always have a natural advantage and higher performance potential than someone who starts with lower levels.

My bad on the bold command :>(

Doubles at over 100 a week= German's times. Well over 100. He was 4:13 high and 9:08 best 3200 on June 10 last year. By 3rd week of August he was running 14:30 CC. Sub 8:50 for two on the track. If you have run sub 8:50 in HS...then you know what he did. You know exactly what he did.

Thanks for explaining to these people how he is so good. Im sick of all this talk saying he runs 60mpw.

Why are you guys acting as though he's lying about how much he runs? He runs 60 mpw or so because he's had a lot of injuries in the past so he's being cautious. Forys, Acosta, Fout, Derrick, Jager, a ton of the top guys in recent years were only 50-70 mpw guys. Do you seriously think they were all lying for some inexplicable reason and were actually all running 100 mpw?