Stuck in the Mid. 17s

higher mileage. if you're not up for that, i'm no expert, but i've always liked 400 repeats for 5k workouts, done at race pace or just slightly faster with even rest.

try some tempo runs

Higher mileage. 35 miles per week is not that much for people running 5ks in the mid 17s.

Increase your mileage to 50+ and see what happens.

Yup, there's no secret to it. Just run more mileage than 35 MPW.

Be grateful you can run that fast, if at all.

Do a 4-mile tempo at a consistent pace on the track, then do 4x150m surges, speeding up each 50m until you are going full speed on the last 50. Another good one that you can do a lot is finding a good hilly course and running for about 30mins. to 1hr. depending on your fitness level, running 6-7min. per mile, depending on your fitness level, and really work every hill that you come to. Your pace in between should not be lolly-gagging, you need to be going at a good pace. Also, striders after your easy runs and just running on hilly courses is good.

I'd been stuck at 16:30-17:00 for a long time. Last fall I stepped up my training and got down to 15:40 as a result. Below is what I built up to. Bear in mind not every week was perfect like this. But if you can, do this.

Mon AM - 30 min jog easy

Mon PM - 30 min jog warmup, stretching, 6x100 strides with 100 jogs between each, 2 or 3 miles of VO2 max work, 20 min jog cooldown

Tue AM - no run

Tue PM - 70 min easy (medium-long run)

Wed AM - 45 minute easy run

Wed PM - no run

Thu AM - 30 min jog easy

Thu PM - 30 min jog warmup, stretching, 6x100 strides with 100 jogs between each, either 4 mile tempo or 5 mile fartlek, 20 min jog cooldown

Fri AM - 30 min jog easy

Fri PM - 30 min jog warmup, stretching, 8x100 strides with 100 jogs between each, 4x60 meter accelerations (last 10 meters at top relaxed speed), 4x40 meter all-out sprints (relaxed), 20 min cooldown (speed maintenance day)

Sat AM - 90 minute long run

Sat PM - no run

Sun - off

VO2 max workouts would either be run at 3k or 5k race pace effort. If it was 3k pace, I would do 2 miles worth of repeats. So, 10x300. The next week it would be 5k race pace, and I would do 3 miles worth of work. So, 12x400. As the season progresses you keep the volume the same and the pace the same, but the repeats get longer. 3k paced workouts might go 8x400, then 5x600. 4x800 was the longest I reached - 3x1000 would be pretty tough. 5k pace work will progress to 6x800, then 5x1000. You could go 3x1600 but that's pretty stressful.

For tempo runs I like to get faster each mile. The first mile is manageable, like 6:45, then 6:30, 6:15, 6:00. The whole thing averages 6:22 in that case. Gradually get faster as the season progresses.

Fartleks I like to do on the track, 800 "off" then 800 "on", and make the off and on segments 1 minute per mile apart. So, the first 800 is 3:30 (7 min pace), then the next is 3:00 (6 min pace), then 3:30, then 3:00, etc. That's a 5 mile run in 32:30 and it feels pretty comfortable. You can slowly make this faster too.

Use whatever speeds work for you. I'm more of an 800 guy so I'm weak aerobically, which is why 6:00 pace works for me as a tempo run.

Summary: Doubles where possible, 1 VO2 max workout, 1 medium-long run, 1 easy day, 1 tempo or fartlek, 1 speed maintenance day, 1 long run, 1 day off, longer warmups and cooldowns than you're used to

One other thing - this might seem like a lot. A long run, medium long run, and 3 workouts in one week. But look at the volume of fast stuff.

3 miles of VO2 max, 4 miles of tempo, 400 meters of sprinting. Some strides as part of a warmup.

Everything else is easy running. 7-8 miles of hard running out of 55-65 for the week is manageable.

That is some great stuff - get into a lot of details. But I do have some questions for your hard days. If you are a sub 16 guy, the VO2 max and Tempo pace should be faster - i.e.: 5x1k at 3K pace and tempo at 5'40" pace for 4-5 miles. (I am slower and I run my tempo at 5'55" pace and run VO2 max with 5x1k at 3K pace). So, it is either you are not a sub 16' or your training pace is off? I think I can do all your workout with ease yet I am struggling to break 16'30", what gives?

I understand for the easy miles I should run it easy, but on workout, I normally use 90% effort.

LHS wrote:

That is some great stuff - get into a lot of details. But I do have some questions for your hard days. If you are a sub 16 guy, the VO2 max and Tempo pace should be faster - i.e.: 5x1k at 3K pace and tempo at 5'40" pace for 4-5 miles. (I am slower and I run my tempo at 5'55" pace and run VO2 max with 5x1k at 3K pace). So, it is either you are not a sub 16' or your training pace is off? I think I can do all your workout with ease yet I am struggling to break 16'30", what gives?

I understand for the easy miles I should run it easy, but on workout, I normally use 90% effort.

Use whatever speeds are appropriate for you. As I said earlier, I'm more of an 800 guy. I'm 5'10", 165 lbs and muscular for a runner, so I can't use the recommended training speeds that you find in Daniels's tables or other places.

4 or 5 miles at 5:40 pace would be too tough for me for a training run, but if you need that in order to get the appropriate stimulus, go for it.

As for the training volumes, 5x1000 at 3k pace sounds like a killer workout to me. If you feel you can do it without overstressing yourself, that's great. You should be finishing workouts tired, but not exhausted. What I find is that if I have to bend over and put my hands on my knees after the last or second to last repetition, I've pushed too far that workout. It's better to stop 1 or 2 reps earlier than that - save a little in the tank.

I personally like 2 miles at 3k pace or 3 miles at 5k pace. Why don't you give it a try? If it's too easy you can manipulate the rest period.

Start with a jog recovery of half the work distance - so 12x400 at 5k race pace with 200 jog recovery. The next time, put the 400's into sets, cut the recovery in half between reps but double it between sets. So, 3x(4x400) with 100 jog recovery between reps within a set, 400 jog recovery between sets.

My philosophy about creating workouts, formulating volumes, and manipulating rest comes directly from Joe Rubio's middle distance guide. It's long but worth the read:

Actually, 85% of what I've written is probably included in the above link. I do some things differently just based on trial and error and my own experiences of what works for me, but all in all it's a great guide. Honestly, almost everything I do is stolen from some place. The tricky part is figuring out how to take a little of this and a little of that in a way that fits you best. Trial and error is the name of the game.