It's kind of ironic how Eyestone had to put up with UTEP in college, got it handed to him by Kenyans on the roads, and now that he's a coach he goes out and gets a ringer. You'd think he would have a little integrity due to his own experiences with 28 year old Kenyans in NCAA races. But sadly, that is not the case. He has gone down the same road as the spineless majority of other college coaches.
if you knew a little background information before you spoke, you would look a lot less like a fool.
I just went to their roster site. One thing a team like that is lacking is diversity. Kogo is the only person of color on the team. Just an observation. Kind of funny how they didn't allow African-Americans into the church until 1974, now, well... Guess it was a business decision, there's money to be made in the socio-economic strata of that race as well, as so the doors are open now.
Have a nice day!
Ed Eyestone is one of the bright new coaches in the US. The man knows his stuff and is deeply dedicated to his athletes. I predict that he will lead BYU to several NCAA Trophies during his career. In regard to the foreign athlete issue...no college coach is any more dedicated to the development of US runners than Ed is. From what I understand he didn't recruit Kip Kongogo.
Illini wrote:
From what I understand he didn't recruit Kip Kongogo.
He DID indeed recruit him. Here is a quote from an article in USA Today:
Eyestone first learned of Kangogo a year ago. Lethbridge coach Bertil Johansson, an ex-BYU decathlete, called about the prospect, who didn't start running until 2000 when he was inspired by fellow Kabernet, Kenya, runner Paul Tergat, a five-time world cross country champ.
Eyestone was intrigued, but Lethbridge had no cross country team and the coach wanted to see some track times. Kangogo produced, with a 3:42 at 1,500 meters, equivalent to a 3:59 mile, and a second place in the 1,500 at the Canadian championships.
"The cat was out of the bag then," Eyestone said. "Arkansas and some others contacted him. Fortunately, he came here for one of his visits and enjoyed the mountains and campus."
-Clay
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/other/2002-10-02-kenyan-upset_x.htmCheck out the article by Dick Patrick in USA Today on Wednesday. Maybe he didn't have to recruit too hard, considering the guy is a mormon. What was Eyestone supposed to do, tell him to go to Arkansas? I don't know Eyestone's views on foreign runners in the NCAA, but I don't recall ever reading of him complaining either when he was running for a living or now that he's coaching. Has he complained? If so, then he's a hypocrite. If not, then he made the best of a golden opportunity to get a fast guy.
I seem to recall Eyestone once said that he thought the presence of Africans in US colleges in the late 70s, early 80s made our distance runners better as the level of collegiate competition was so much higher. I think he was quoted as saying, "after the UTEP dual meet, no race seems that hard."
How many "person[s] of color" are there on Stanford's team, or Colorado's? Did you bother to check the BYU track roster and notice the other "person[s] of color" there. Of ocurse not, because you're a bigot. Oh, and I don't know where you got your info (although I have an idea) but the LDS church never prevented African-Americans (or just plain Africans or anyone else) from entering their church, ever.
Arian Nation Breeding Ground wrote:
I just went to their roster site. One thing a team like that is lacking is diversity. Kogo is the only person of color on the team. Just an observation. Kind of funny how they didn't allow African-Americans into the church until 1974, now, well... Guess it was a business decision, there's money to be made in the socio-economic strata of that race as well, as so the doors are open now.
Have a nice day!
Ed Eyestone is one of the bright new coaches in the US. The man knows his stuff and is deeply dedicated to his athletes. I predict that he will lead BYU to several NCAA Trophies during his career. In regard to the foreign athlete issue...no college coach is any more dedicated to the development of US runners than Ed is. From what I understand he didn't recruit Kip Kongogo.[/quote]
Ed Eyestone is NOT one of the "bright new coaches" in the US. He is A coach, period. He has proven nothing yet. Whether he knows his stuff will be evident in the years to come.
But using the logic on this board (as applied to Stanford and Lananna), nothing Eyestone can do will with his team will ever be more than the product of good recruiting.
For those not in the know, BYU has the largest recruiting base in the nation in terms of geographical area (most at altitude yet!), its only national caliber rivals being Colorado, which has little scholarship money, and Northern Arizona. Plus it is the school all Mormons are encouraged by DUTY to attend, especially if they have any talent that can spotlight the university and the religion, shades of the old East Germany.
A novel idea: let's see what Eyestone can do before we start applying our celebrity gushing to coaching expertise that may or may not exist.
The issue should not be whether foreigners are recruited to various NCAA programs or not, it should be whether they are receiving scholarship aid that SHOULD GO SOLELY TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AMERICAN RUNNERS!! Did Eyestone cop out and go for the quick fix results by using scholarship money in order to make himself and BYU instantly better(how hard is it to coach someone who runs 3.42 in their first season?)instead of taking the longer approach by developing an American high school runner?
realist who grew up there wrote:
Plus it is the school all Mormons are encouraged by DUTY to attend, especially if they have any talent that can spotlight the university and the religion, shades of the old East Germany.
What DUTY are you referring to? Is it this DUTY that made Grant Robison, Ryan Andrus, Seth Pilkington, Jeremy Tolman, Issac Hawkins, etc. go to BYU? You sound like just one more jilted Ute fan.
You are correct, I was speaking off the top of my head. The real date that blacks in America were allowed full membership into the Mormon church was 1978. Did a simple search and came up with these quotes.
LDS - "...[T]hrough their INDIFFERENCE or LACK OF INTEGRITY TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, [blacks] rendered themselves UNWORTHY of the Priesthood and its powers...." LDS "Historian" B. H. Roberts, The Contributor, vol. 6, pp. 296-297
A CURSE ON THE "SEED OF CAIN" ?
LDS - "You see some classes of the human family that are BLACK, UNCOUTH, UNCOMELY, DISAGREEABLE and LOW in their habits, WILD, and seemingly DEPRIVED OF NEARLY ALL THE BLESSINGS OF THE INTELLIGENCE that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been KILLED, and THAT WOULD HAVE PUT A TERMINATION TO THAT LINE OF HUMAN BEINGS. This was not to be, and the Lord put A MARK upon him, which is THE FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race -- that they should be the "servants of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree." LDS "Prophet" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290, 1859, emphasis added.
LDS - "Though he was a rebel and an ASSOCIATE OF LUCIFER IN PRE-EXISTENCE, ...Cain managed to attain the privilege of mortal birth.... [H]e came out in open rebellion, fought God, worshiped Lucifer, and slew Abel.... AS A RESULT OF HIS REBELLION, CAIN WAS CURSED WITH A DARK SKIN; HE BECAME THE FATHER OF THE NEGROES, and THOSE SPIRITS WHO ARE NOT WORTHY to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage." LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 108-109, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "The gospel message of salvation is NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM [blacks]...." LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 527, 1966 edition, emphasis added.
LDS - "...[W]orthy males of all races can now receive the Melchizedek Priesthood.... It means that members of all races may now be married in the temple, although INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES ARE DISCOURAGED by the Brethren...." LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-528, 1979 printing of 1966 edition.
Note: Mormonism grudgingly allowed blacks to enter its priesthood in 1978. But notice the continuing racial prejudice, even as the group attempts to declare that blacks are now acceptable!
And so on, and so on. The point is, a black man is now good enough to help BYU attain greater glory on their sports teams, the cross team is especially blaring, but at the same time, is seen as a "mongrell with unclean seed, that is strongly discouraged from breeding with the church's sons and daughters." This is actually fun to read, because this is still the view held behind the "white curtain." Members on the scrolls deny all you want, but these are quotes from your own leaders. Just your history for the day folks. Zieg Hail!
A few points:
1) Not a single one of these quotes represents the official doctrinal position of the church. They are misguided statements made by individuals within the church.
2) While at BYU Eyestone beat the Kenyans.
3) Neither the LDS church.
4) Promoting a bigoted, biased, and deceptive agenda against a religion doesn't fit the purpose of this board.
ET
You mean there is actually racial prejudice in America? And that a major religious institution could possibly be somewhat backwards in its thinking.
Thanks for that tip. We never would have known.
A few points:
1) Not a single one of these quotes represents the official doctrinal position of the church. They are misguided statements made by individuals within the church.
2) While at BYU Eyestone beat the Kenyans.
3) Ever heard of Frankie Fredericks?
4) Neither the LDS church nor BYU discriminates against any race in any way, shape or form.
5) Promoting a bigoted, biased, and deceptive agenda against a religion doesn't fit the purpose of this board.
ET
DUTY? wrote:
realist who grew up there wrote:Plus it is the school all Mormons are encouraged by DUTY to attend, especially if they have any talent that can spotlight the university and the religion, shades of the old East Germany.
What DUTY are you referring to? Is it this DUTY that made Grant Robison, Ryan Andrus, Seth Pilkington, Jeremy Tolman, Issac Hawkins, etc. go to BYU? You sound like just one more jilted Ute fan.
As anyone who has ever lived in that area and has had Mormon friends can tell you, the Moromon church GREATLY encourages any of the bretheren with outstanding talent in any field, sports or whatever, to develop and put that talent to use at BYU. Other schools, specially Mormon schools like Weber State, Rexburg (Junior College), etc. are certainly allowed, and no one is kicked out of the church for attending Oregon or anywhere else. But good athletes--especially in major sports (sorry, running!)--are strongly encouraged to be good athletes at BYU. Thus, no matter what the sport, you have a huge recruiting base...in a very real way, you end up with parents and church officials acting as recruiting agents all over the area. (Notre Dame, for example, enjoys this same situation, only at a much lesser degree.)
If a coach can't be successful after 4 years with this kind of recruiting support, give it up. So let's see how Eyestone does.
And yeah, anybody daring to speak about real world situations HAS to be jealous of something!
ET and newsflash, The response was meant for the guy saying that this kind of thing in no way exist. Of course it does. I long ago accepted the flaws with organized religion. Does it mean that they are worthless, no. They are responsible for many good things and some bad. I merely pointed out that the BYU cross country team now has a 23 year old black man competing for them, and that he is the only one, everyone else is, well, the opposite of the color black. In the recent past this kind of thing would have been heavily looked down upon by the "elders" of the church.
Some other points for ET:
1) The doctrine of the church NOW is a lot different from the doctrine THEN. If you read the quotes, one of them is from Brigham Young himself from the 1800's, yes the one about the flat noses and the cursed black skin.
2) Eyestone did beat SOME of the Kenyans, not all.
3) Sure Fredericks can be held up as a token, but where is their "Fredericks from the 70's."
4)These institutions may not officially discriminate anymore, but that still doesn't refute the fact that until 1978 blacks were not able to become priest in the church i.e. not given full standing, and therefore DISCRIMINATED against. We both know this was forced upon the church by the federal government at peril of the sword, so to speak. If they were not made to comply through the threat of losing their tax exempt status would doctrine have changed? Hmmm?
5)ET, getting a little sensitive about religion are we? No agenda here, just the facts ma'am, just the facts.
6) Please, continue to have a nice day!
Also, my reference to the old East Germany meant that sport is used to show how good an insitution is, whether at BYU or other schools. The idea is, "We are good in this, so we are good in other things, too." With BYU, the spotlight isn't on a political system, but on a religion. Many articles have been written about Padilla, Marsh, etc., where the Mormon "lifestyle" (read: Mormon FAITH!) is always pointed to as a huge reason for the athlete's success? The church loves this (what institution wouldn't, religious or otherwise) and its members encourage this to continue by encouraging attendence there.
There is nothing evil about any of this, BTW. But it makes my point about good recruiting classes year after year being a huge given for the coaches in any sport, Eyestone's included.
realist wrote:
Also, my reference to the old East Germany meant that sport is used to show how good an insitution is, whether at BYU or other schools. The idea is, "We are good in this, so we are good in other things, too." With BYU, the spotlight isn't on a political system, but on a religion. Many articles have been written about Padilla, Marsh, etc., where the Mormon "lifestyle" (read: Mormon FAITH!) is always pointed to as a huge reason for the athlete's success? The church loves this (what institution wouldn't, religious or otherwise) and its members encourage this to continue by encouraging attendence there.
There is nothing evil about any of this, BTW. But it makes my point about good recruiting classes year after year being a huge given for the coaches in any sport, Eyestone's included.
Thank you for clarifing your point. I can't say I disagree with you now.
I am originally from Utah and I am not a BYU fan. I am a huge Runnin' Ute fan. I proudly call myself a runnin' Runnin' Ute fan. BUT I think Ed Eyestone is a great coach for BYU's distance program. Religion Smeeligion. What in the world are you bringing up religion for? Let's stop bashing the hard work Ed Eyestone is doing. Is he doing it for the money? I don't think so. He could be making a lot more money in corporate America instead of dedicating himself to the development of BYU runners. I think the percentage of foreign runners will be extremely small at BYU. So what if BYU excels with the few foreign athletes that they have. Americans need to get off their butts and go after the Kenyans rather than whining that they are better than we are. Ed Eyestone is a young, energetic Go-Getter who happens to be LDS. I am not but that has nothing to do with my respect for his efforts. I wish him and his program well.