Help diagnose these two possibly great H.S. girl runners

If an athlete cannot motivate him/herself, then their really isn't hope for her.

Runner B just sucks. Some people just aren't meant to run.

Are they both sophomores now?

How long have they been training this spring? That is, straight through the winter? From other sports in the winter? XC in fall?

How often are they expected to race each week? How many times in a meet will they toe the line in an individual or relay race?

Have you sat down with them individually and asked questions and REALLY listened? Sometimes, as coaches, we put answers into their mouths without really listening to what they have to say.

Most high school girls, regardless of talent, participate in sports as a social endeavor. Do you know why they run? Are their motivations different than a year ago when everything was so new and easy?

Success come easy does little to fan the flames of work ethic.

Race Runner A less. Put her with her peers on runs and give them a challenge for each day like touching every road sign they Run across (this eliminates the corner cutting) and have them count how many they passed. Take the emphasis off of her and put it on her peers. She doesn't want to be special right now, she just wants to be with everyone else.

Race Runner B less. Back her off on the training. Focus on FUN. Let her competitiveness shine on race days by de-emphasizing training for a time being. Have them run to an ice-cream store, eat a cone, then jog back. Give her a race-plan that focuses on splits for the first half, and competing the second half.

Shoot me an email if any of this sounds good and you want to start a dialog.

mbaker.coaching@gmail.com

You haven't tried everything. Get them working together, not in opposition. That would be the first thing.

I'm afraid you have some sort of Eagles vs Rattlers issue there that you fuel with misdirected pressure and expectation. Yes, they are probably both < 5 talents but neither needs to approach the event exactly the way you think is best. Pay attention to what works. If they aren't having fun, you're messing it up.

Stop telling runner B to run pace. She's a young miler, not a future Leadville star. Ask her to race her own race, and tell her you trust her judgment.

Let runner A race below the mile. She has to shine. Structure is way overrated. She'll let you know when she wants structure. Stop bringing your watch to practice. Runner B has a watch, and runner A doesn't really need one.

And forget coach of the year. You know, it doesn't mean a damn thing.

dsrunner

dsrunner@juno.com

No idea on runner A. She "doesn't want to train M-F"? So, she's lazy? Does she enjoy running at all?

Runner B is a CLEAR example of someone who feels the pressure and anxiety of race day way too much. I was a bit like this, although not as extreme. I ran ridiculous workouts, but I was always so nervous for races that I didn't have fun, and I didn't really compete because I was so scared. You need to give her two strict assignments: 1. RELAX before and during the race. Easier said than done, but she has to treat it like it's no big thing if she's going to succeed. And 2. pick a runner from a rival school who is in the 5:15 range and tell her to SIT ON HER F-ING HIP THE ENTIRE RACE AND PASS HER AT THE END. It's really that simple. Give her nothing to think about - spell it out. Sit on the girl's hip, and then *****slap her. If she dies, she dies. Try it again next week.

i havent read anything except i heard underachieving...possibly an anemia problem which is very very common for female runners especially in high school...try and see if a serrum ferratin test can see if her levels r low or not

this was truly written from a man's perspective.

as a former high school track runner, i will assess from a firsthand perspective:

Runner A: she is very competitive, will not lose in races, but is not competitive enough to make the commitment to come to practice so she can stop losing races now? Forget her. Her commitment is such that it's not worth it for you to put effort into training her. If she becomes upset enough at your new attitude towards her, then she'll whip into shape. My high school coach would have kicked her off the team long ago. If you don't come to practice, you're not on the team. Even if you're the best runner by a minute and a half.

She has all the talent in the world, but can't break 5:30 at dual meets? Not sure why the other coaches would be asking what sort of recruiting efforts you're making for her. If she won effortlessly as a freshman, then she probably doesn't see why she needs to put in effort now.

Runner B: head case. Typical.. It does sound like she needs a race where she just pushes it the entire time and it doesn't matter if she dies.

crazy kyle, i was thinking the same thing. Get a ferritan test.

dsrunner wrote:

Yes, they are probably both < 5 talents...

I didn't read anything to suggest that. 5:15 is a long way from sub-5. 5:30/5:40 are obviously even further away.

Also, I'm not sure how the serum ferritin levels correspond to one's motivation.

I might have ben a potential headcase in HS, similar to runner B. Fortunately my hs coach emphasized having FUN at practice and at meets. To be sure, he also made us believe that WINNING was more FUN than not.

Like the other poster said, just talk to them and find out what they are thinking. Why they feel the way they do. Are you pressuring them too much? Is someone else?

IMO, there is more hope for runner B than runner A. Runner A doesn't care enough while runner B cares too much.

For runner A, it could be extremely difficult to get her motivated to do a structured training program. For runner B, it sounds almost like the pressure of being one of the top runners in the state is getting to her. Also, she (kind of like me) might simply not be a good racer.

You make no mention of their speed, which is a better indicator of whether they have any real talent. Get them out of the mile and run 400/800 a couple of times. If they can't run 62-64 and 2:25-2:30 then they really are only average talent.

More importantly, their bodies may have changed more than you think. It seems like in every area there is a freshman or two who never improve. It is a sad reality.

Good luck

PS I agree with the possibility of anemia for runnerB those times are barely jogging.

Went for an icecream run the other day. Ended up being three miles into town, sat for 25 minutes and every runner had some icecream. (my treat) Then, the three mile run back into town was all giggles as people were trying not to puke. More for show than anything.

I always change their events up. They never run the same event three meets in a row. Last week Runner A ran 2:28 all alone in the half mile. She has split 64 in the 400 while she waves at friends on the back straight away. The talent is there trust me.

Runner B has yet to have a solid race yet. Though her training suggests otherwise, I will take into consideration all of the advice given. Despite the fact that she takes distance running VERY seriously, she is being recruited by D1 schools for her unmatched ability to play field hockey. I just need to pull her competitiveness onto the track as well.

*The other coach had a daughter who ran for a D1 University and suffered from anemia amongst other nutrition complications. He does not feel there is anything wrong with either of the girls at this point. However, he is not a doctor and that is undoubtedly something to keep in mind.

You guys really are helpful and I appreciate those of you who posted your email addresses.

This is just a short reply. I will add more in a while. I will take nearly every opportunity possible to make running/training fun and enjoyable from here on out and hope for the best.

Low ferritin is not always related to anemia, but is a fairly common, undiagnosed problem in female runners. Ferritin is a protein that stores iron and when it is depleted can cause heavy legs, increased risk of injury, lack of motivation, loss of the joy of running and ultimately, slower times. I would urge Runner B to have a blood test, even if your other coach sees nothing wrong. Iron depletion caused by low ferritin is easily fixed, usually through iron supplements and multi-vitamins. My junior year of high school I unknowingly struggled with a severe lack of ferritin, that left me frustrated and in despair about my running capabilities. After leading the cross country team and track distance team the previous year, I was unable to break 6:30 for the mile the entire year, and by the end of the season I could barely run sub-3 minutes for the 800. After a blood test diagnosed my low ferritin I spent the summer recovering and the following fall broke my school's cross country record at the state championships. All female runners should consider having regular blood tests to monitor their ferritin levels. Although simple to resolve, low ferritin can harm even the most motivated of runners.

Thanks, MMS. You made the point a lot better than I could: Often an I-don't-care attitude, or boredom, or a good-training(-with-rest-breaks)/bad-racing(-with-no-breaks) situation is a symptom of a *physical* problem.

ice cream run?! no wonder the first girl doesn't care enough to take it seriously.

Runner A: Dismiss her from the team if she misses another scheduled practice. She should be held to the same standard as any other athlete. If you would cut an average kid from the team for repeated violations, then runner A should be cut.

Runner B: I've coached my share of head cases. When I was younger I would obsess about how I could get through to that little patch of psyche that makes athletes kill in practice and choke under pressure.You won't figure it out.

Don't knock yourself out with either runner. "A" sounds like she sets a horrible example for the lesser talented runners you might have on the team that are willing to buy what you are selling and "B" will likely never come through for you or her team when it matters most.

Focus on the kids that want to be there and the kids that are responding to your guidance. Good luck.

Wow.....as a FEMALE high school track coach....this is raising all sorts of alarms for me. We had a girl on our team, not a miler, but a 400m runner who was beyond awesome as a freshman and sophomore, so much so that everyone was always telling her what to do....and she stopped listening to her coaches most of the time since the guy at the deli knew more than us apparently. Anyways...junior season, a club coach snuck her out of town to some big meet up in New York and she was never the same again. Tried to committ suicide three times that year and several times the next year. She would come to practice and look awesome and then not show up at the meet the next day. Totally unreliable. Ended up in a mental hospital a couple of times. Did not graduate.

Another girl was a very high achiever but got totally stressed about running...ended up anorexic.

All I am trying to say...is that you need to do a couple of things and then step back. Girl A....she needs to follow the rules, and if she doesn\'t, follow through with the consequences. Girl B....just let it go. Do the best that you can, and if they are not willing to put in the effort, or cannot get out of their heads, then just let it go. Girls can be so tough to deal with, and sometimes you need to back off of them a bit and let them see the big picture. And really...would it be the end of the world if they didn\'t do as well as they had last year? Probably not. If they are only sophomores than I wouldn\'t be a hard ass with them at all...just be a concerned coach and leave it at that.

Talk to each runner separately. Keep the mood light, and emphasize your care and concern. Ask them what they want for themselves, if they temporarily ignore what they perceive others (including you) want for them. Give them permission to ignore what others want for them. Ask them what they wish their lives looked like, what their running looked like. The answers will help you determine how important running is to them. And you must respect it.

Help them determine what their goals are -- remember that these are their goals, not yours. And then figure out with them how to achieve those goals.

This process will give control back to the girls. What often happens to young talents is that they feel like they're not in control. They realize that there are many things about competition that they cannot control. Everyone telling them what to do also takes away their control. Give it back to them and see what happens. It may or may not result in better racing, but it will surely result in a better relationship with you and improved self-esteem for them.

Send "A" down the road. She is not a good teammate and she does not want to run. Let her wander off to the land of road racing if she only wants to "perform" off what god gave her and has no interest in progression through hard work.

Leave "B" alone. You have shown interest and have been supportive. Beyond that you are in a way forcing her to focus on a real negative area. Let her be a mid packer. Don't treat her like an elite. Don't single her out as a person who runs X in practice that is SUPPOSED to run Y in races.