What is the point of 'Badger' Miles?

As several posters have already mentioned, the method of assuming a conservative mile pace, allows the runner to stray off the measured course on easy days. Avoiding the same 4 or 5 trail/road runs day after day keeps the runner from becoming obsessed with the speed they run on recovery days. Isn't it more important to run according to perceived effort on these days?

I am the first to admit that I hate doing hard workouts on anything other than a meticulously measured course or track, as I want an accurate picture of just how fast I am running. However, it's this same compulsion that often drives me to race myself even on recovery days:

"I know it's an easy day but...damn...I'm like 30 seconds off my normal pace, I'd better pick it up just a little...don't want to start running too slow."

Running "badger miles" has really helped me in my training. I may very well be running 5 miles +/- what I am writing in my log, but I'm also not tempted to push my body harder than it wants to go on easy days. In my experience, this is when injuries happen. Also, it enables me to add in soft surfaced routes that are unmeasured, such as local golf courses, unmarked trails, and parks.

For runners with a similar temperment, I think the "badger" system of mile counting is great. I am not "cheating" myself of miles in training so much as I am allowing my body to recover the way it needs to. SOme days that means 6:40 pace, other days it's more like 7:30. Every few weeks I'll jump on a track in the middle of an easy run, just to get a general idea of what my pace is, but that's it. 2 years of running this way, and I've been injury free, haven't missed a day of training.

If you really really hate the "badger" system, chill out. Remember, the track never lies, and neither does the competition in a XC race. We'll see how those crazy 7 min milers do at NCAAA's this year...(that's a joke for those of you who were about to burn me).

[quote]hrunner wrote:

they are not meant to be a psychological trick - they are just an easy way of caculating mileage... i run on trails all the time, i have no idea what the actualy mileage is but a good bet for me would be to divide by 7 and a half minutes give or take, and that is point, let's not be so anal that we have to netpick every damn detail... just shup up and run, don't worry so much about what your exact mileage is, especially on easy days

Yeah, hrunner, I guess I have to take that one, I'm an Alaskan runner and I'm on the trails 90% of the time, but the truth is I just am that anal. That's why I got one of those fruity GPS systems. I still don't worry about my pace (especially on a trail, skewed numbers) but it tells me how far I went since I'm such an (admitted) obsessive basket case. But I know there are other runners like that. Right? Guys?

So for me, I have to accept my anal-ness instead of throwing it away, but either way I still find a way to "shut up and run" as you so gently advised.

you people miss the point badger miles is basically counting minutes instead of miles run. i keep track of how many minutes i run a week, not miles, and its essentially the same philosophy. why do i do this? well because 1. you'll never be completely accurate by counting miles anyawy and 2. it allows me to run by feel instead of saying "oh i have to run this far today for my log." i just go out there, put the minutes in at the pace i feel most comfortable with and that is that.

completely fair points - are you being serious? does it really bother you if you don't know your mileage almost exactly?i admit, i definitely keep track of time and guess mileage but i am sure there are some weeks where I may be as off as 5 miles over or under...i am very anal about tempo runs and track work, down to the second and meter... i kind of admire those runners who can do their interval workouts by feel... that is i'm just going to run at vV02max on the for 4 minutes, 2 min rest, repeat

Well, I didn't say I endorse my obsessiveness. Really, I don't care that much about recovery mileage and all of that, at least in terms of extreme detail. Like you, I do like to know very precisely what my distance and time is for things like tempo runs, track work, and my long run. I just kind of got hooked on the GPS thing so that I didn't have to be distracted during recovery runs by analyzing my pace so that I could calculate it later on. I don't think a five mile discrepancy matters for much at the end of the week, as far as real fitness goes, if the gray areas are in the easy running.

If your willingness to let the accuracy slide is what allows you to spend some of your running on a trail instead of a more measurable road, I think you are right on in your approach. I just put in a nice trail run this afternoon, nothing beats it. Ran into one moose and followed some fresh black bear tracks, but if that kind of thing doesn't bother you, why run on the road?

blahahjbal wrote:

you people miss the point badger miles is basically counting minutes instead of miles run. i keep track of how many minutes i run a week, not miles, and its essentially the same philosophy. why do i do this? well because 1. you'll never be completely accurate by counting miles anyawy and 2. it allows me to run by feel instead of saying "oh i have to run this far today for my log." i just go out there, put the minutes in at the pace i feel most comfortable with and that is that.

I also count minutes instead of miles in logging my training (except for track workouts and tempo runs), for exactly the same reasons that you give above. I just read Tegenkamp's explanation of Badger Miles and it may be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Point of fact, he's not running 7:00 pace hardly ever. They're counting minutes and then assigning an artificially low number of "miles" to that amount of time. Just count the minutes and be done with it, making note of whether the pace was slow, medium, fast, a progression, whatever, that day. The disclaimer about adding 10 miles to every 60 Badger miles during base training to get "real" miles just proves how stupid it is. The good news is Tegenkamp is running well, but I'd say the badger miles system of counting isn't the main reason why.

WHY DO ANY OF YOU CARE ABOUT BADGER MILES?

DO YOU GO TO WISCO? COULD YOU GO IF YOU WANTED TO?

JUST DROP IT, NO ONE SHOULD EVEN CARE.

GET A LIFE YOU LOSERS.

Summary time.

1) People asking "what the heck are badger miles?" are not disparaging Wisconsin, nor are they jealous of the program's achievements. They are curious about a rescaling of a common measurement system (miles) to something else.

2) No one is denying that most every runner needs a system for estimating distance on runs off a measured course

3) Tegenkamp's interview made it pretty clear that he was not running 7:00 minute miles on non-workout runs, he is averaging around 6:00. This is not that fast for someone of his ability.

4) It is a substantial difference from 7 minute miles.

5) Tegenkamp's explanation contradicts some of the reasons for badger miles offered on this board before, such as making Wisco runners slow down to 7:00 pace on easy runs.

6) Some people, including me, wonder why you'd rescale your measure of distance covered in a week to 7/6 miles.

7) In the end rescaling of measurement systems is immaterial so long as you're working consistently within a system.

Years ago the Badger CC team was expected by their coach to run 7 minute pace on runs other than workouts. But the runners ran however fast they felt like unbeknownst to their coach (M. Smith), but only logged as if 7 min. pace. Years later the tradition is still the same for logging miles, but Jerry, a product of Smith's doesn't expect the guys to run that slow. Keep in mind that the the Badger miles are not counted the same way for workouts and tempo days. But warmups and cool downs are. Things like strides and jogging between intervals do not count as miles at all.

So there is the answer, tradition of guys running a faster (albeit normal for their level) pace. Not much science. You guys are hilarious about this type of crap, when I can honestly tell you it just happened.

Flightless - nice summary.

* I had a pal who went to UW-Mad & ran under Coach Martin Smith. He ran his easy days on random unmeasured courses & trails and figured it at 7:00 pace (late 1980s). Hilarious. I never knew this was Badger Miles ! I wondered what Teg meant when he said that recently.

* I wonderered at first how (my friend) could run so fast on his easy days. (Immeasurable talent disparity between myself and his ilk) Then I recalled his race pace was around 2 MINUTES per mile quicker than that, and then it seemed real plausible to cruise @ 7:00 pace.

* Turns out I too, and like many here, also run Badger Miles. I figure it around 8:00 pace (& I could probably slow it down a touch even more honestly), and like those Badger kids, I am pretty well calibrated at various paces, so I know within margin of error of 10 spm my pace is 8:00 on an easy day. I will occasionaly calibrate the pace on an EZ day on a measured course. The benefit is great. I'm not a slave to my measured courses and it allows me the freedom to run/explore & go off road which keeps it fresh, and I do not concern myself with splits, out & back neagatives, etc. I will often measure the course afterwards on the usatf/googlemap site to keep it honest. I run mostly measured courses.

its not our place to know, it is their thing, and it works. you dont see the ethopians giving away their training secrets, the kenyans either, its their thing and they are entitled to keep it that way. some of you may see it as foolish, but i dont see you bringing out 13 20 guys every year, NCAA XC, 3k, 5k champs, 13 04 guys so they are entitled to their props

I think most of us run some sort of "Badger" miles. Just a run for time, 70 minutes is 10 miles, etc. Given that your daily pace is going to be different from day to day and season to season (winter/summer) I'll count a normal run of 65-70 minutes a "10 mile run". It might be 9.5, it might be 10.5, it's close enough.

Alan