Hard-Easy Myth Jack Farrell

try

http://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack_farrell_july_00.htm

also helpful

http://www.strom_andersen.com/QA/QAdatabase.html

sorry

fan of nicole stevenson wrote:

try

http://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack_farrell_july_00.htm

also helpful

http://www.strom_andersen.com/QA/QAdatabase.html

fan of nicole can open the link to strom anderson finally just went to website but don't understand squat. any idea how to get to the information i requested.

by the way have already been to coaches ed but needed more info as to when you do any type of tempo vo2 work

basically need clarification thanks

what i mean is what exctly does he mean by repetetion work and how

examples that they did?

could he be contacted?

thanks

Jack Farrell was my coach in high school.

We did different repetition work depending on what we were training for. In XC we did 4x1320 or 3x1 mile on a cross-type of terrain, at race pace. In track we did typical track workouts, based on our individual events. Coach Farrell definitely believes in muscle memory, so we always did repetitions at the pace we would race at.

I think the difference in Coach Farrells' philosophy was that in our training runs we were not running slow. We generally held a pace of 1 minute slower than our race pace (or a reasonable goal race pace). We ran this pace on each run. Long runs on Monday, as well as our slightlys shorter runs the day before the meet. As you probably read, this enabled us to establish a comfort zone at a faster pace.

Our team ran very few miles (as a girl, I am sure that I never ran further than 40 miles in a week, even toward the end of the season), but our training was instead fast.

If you have specific questions I will try to answer.....it has been a while since I was in high school!

Also, I loved training this way, and still emulate it.

xc junkie thank you so much

cassaka2 thank you very much also

confused

my understanding is that you tried to increase the speed of your every day run as much as you could not that it was based on your best race performance

so would you train for 5k pace or 2 mile. are you supposed to run the everyday runs faster during track since i'm only racing 2 miles instead of three.

ok so what type of repetition work did you do in the off season? or did you do any?

can you eloborate on the pick ups that you guys did every other week instead of the repeat 1320's by the way would that equal a 1200 today?

thanks again every body.

I kind of gravitated towards what cassaka2 described for most of the last summer. I had good interval and tempo runs each week, but my maintenance days were somewhat faster than recommended because I generally ran them with a faster friend. They were closer to my marathon pace than my easy pace, and they were generally 5-6 miles in length. Total mileage was 40-45 per week, but I still was able to drop my 5k and 10k PRs significantly. I don't think it's something I'll do as regularly this summer, but if it's a choice of running 8-9 miles easy by myself or running a little less far but faster with a friend, I'll do the latter.

looking4info wrote:

my understanding is that you tried to increase the speed of your every day run as much as you could not that it was based on your best race performance

so would you train for 5k pace or 2 mile. are you supposed to run the everyday runs faster during track since i'm only racing 2 miles instead of three.

ok so what type of repetition work did you do in the off season? or did you do any?

can you eloborate on the pick ups that you guys did every other week instead of the repeat 1320's by the way would that equal a 1200 today?

Okay, basically all of our runs were based on a 5k pace, even in track season. I was a 18 minute 3 miler so I usually trained somewhere between 6:50 and 7:30 (faster the older and more experienced I got). We did try to increase the speed of our overall runs, therefore enabling us to run faster, however for a good point of reference for people just starting (or people who are attempting to train too slow), we would try to run 1 minute per mile slower than our best 5k, and then try to pick up speed from there. By the way, we could have conversations at this pace.

A 1320 is 3 miles (California's typical XC race distance) divided by 4. So yes, basically the same as 1200 meters.

Off season we did not do repetition work. At the start of a training season (either XC or Track) we would be placed at a daily distance based on our fitness. Varsity girls were often at 4 or 5 miles, and varsity boys were usually at 5 maybe 6 miles. We would run that distance each day for a month (except Mondays when we would go 1 mile longer), and then move up to the next number. So off season there was no repetition, but we did do the long run.

As for the pick up run, that was a speed workout we did. We probably did it 5-6 times in a season, and it was often used when we have done plenty of 4x1320's, and maybe the course we used was too wet. So here is how it works. We ran to a park as usual for warm up and then did stretching, form drills and shakeups (most people say strides). Coach would give us our courses for the day based on everyone's mileage. Then each person (or group aka Varsity Boys) would be assigned a pick up distance. The distance was between 1 and 2 miles. The more experienced athletes would go longer. When we had that distance left on our run we would start the pick up portion of the workout.

So, let's say that a Varsity Boy was doing a 7 mile run, his distance. He ran 1 mile to the park. After the park he runs 4 miles at normal training pace. With 2 miles to go he drops his pace to a little faster (maybe 5 seconds per mile). At first this feels fast, and difficult. After about 30 seconds his body has adjusted to the new pace and he feels fine again, and his breathing has slowed to a reasonable rate. Once he feels fine for a short time, he drops the pace again. Some of the runners liked to use landmarks like lightpoles or cross streets to determine when to drop the pace again. I would estimate that it is dropped about every quarter of a mile. This continues until the run is finished back at school. The runner should have gotten to race pace or faster. To be honest, when I did this with my usual training group, we would end in a dead sprint (or as close as we could come at that point of the run). We jogged to the locker room for a cool down. I saw the boys run some extremely fast last miles doing that (somewhere around 5 minutes...they got pretty competitive).

Hope this explains it ok.

Also.....just wanted to clarify that we started speedwork about 2 weeks prior to the first invitational.

I chatted with Jack back and forth on email a few years back. Cassaka2 explains it much better than I ever could have. Without knowing Jack, I ran this way throughout my best racing years effectively running each run the same as the next with one hard day a week at about 5K pace. I hated long runs so I added about 1-2 miles to my daily average once a week.

My daily average depending on the time of year was roughly 8-10 miles a day. I always tried to do one day that which I could do the next day. I raced 5K at about a 5 minute pace and trained at about 6:20-30 but often would do interior miles down close to 6 minutes. As I progressed I found that at different times of the year I could run around a 6 pace almost effortlessly.

Jack and I were trying to figure out if older runners could train that way too. By older we mean runners in their 50's.

I tried but couldn't maintain it. I could not recover and found that to run day after day I had to slow the pace so dramatically that this approach didn't work. It worked well in my 20's and 30's though. In my early 50's I could still run a 6 minute pace but I could not maintain a seven pace day after day even after reducing my daily average to 5-6 miles a day.

Very good info. A few other questions if you do't mind.

1. Speed work you mean the 4x1320 which alternated with or then completely changed to the pick ups?

2. When doing these 1320/pickups did you also do the cycles on Mondays after the long run, which he talks about in the articles?

3. Since I want to race the 3200 and the 1600 what type of workouts would that be instead of the 1320/repetitions?

So lets say that it's November just run steady states every day for a month. Come December try to add a mile while also increasing the pace. Moving to January again add a mile while again increasing the pace. On to February again add a mile while continuing to icrease the pace; while also starting (speed 1320's and or the repetitions since first race for me would be middle of February. Am I getting that right?

I know we don't add any more miles after 8 tops but do we continue to try to increase the pace as long as one can converse?

So far so very very good Thanks

What type of raw speed did you have-200/400 speed?

michaeltowler wrote:

What type of raw speed did you have-200/400 speed?

I think you are asking me.....I ran a 60 flat 400 as a freshman in high school. I didn't really improve on that later, but I didn't run it much later either.

The goal is to get your pace quicker, but in general I think that my pace didn't change dramatically throughout the season. This is why you start at a lower daily distance. I may not have been able to hold 7 minute pace for 7 miles at the beginning of the season, but gradually by the end of the season I could. So I would say focus more on how you feel on those runs.

Also, after Cross country we would take a break and then start training for Track after Christmas break. At this time we would go back down to a lower mileage. (maybe 5 miles).

okay in response to your questions

1. In XC we usually did 1320's but would sometimes do a pick up run instead. The reason for the change would either be weather (pickups are done on the streets-rain-proof), or to break up the repetition. Also, if we had a break in our league meet schedule we might fit in a second speed type workout on Thursday (with 1320's on Tuesday).

2. We did not do the cycles. I graduated in 1996. I believe he mentions in one of the articles that the cycles were fairly new (around 99???).

3. When coach Farrell had me running the 1600 and 3200 I would do track workouts. To train for the mile I would do

--4x400 at goal mile pace- Jog a 200 in between or

--600-400-600 at goal mile pace-jog a 200 between

3200 workouts

8x400 @2mile pace with 200m jog

4x800 @2mile pace with 400 jog

After any track workout we did 2 or 3 flying 100's, simulating a finish.

I am sure there are a lot more workouts that we did, and some of these sound a little easy, so my memory may be failing me. I think other let's run members can definitely guide you as to some good track workouts to do to get you ready for these races.

We definitely started track workouts earlier in track than we did in Cross. Maybe 4 weeks prior to an invite.

Another point I should make is that we did not use spikes or racing flats in our training....not even speed work. Our regular running shoes forced us to work a little harder, kept us from getting injured, and kept the racing shoes "special"-----when we had racing shoes on, it was time to race. I loved that.

Did you all do anything different over the last two weeks of season, I am talking in terms of peaking. Did you all drop daily mileage any? thanks

Jack used to have a great story he told about abandoning the tapering/peaking process. I don't know if it is in any of his articles. He stated that when he tapered training, his teams would become anxious as the lighter training would get them thinking of how important the upcoming race must be if they were going that easy. He felt it added too much pressure so he pretty much trained the same right through the championship season. When I was around, he used double days but I'm not sure if abandoned them by the mid 90's.

This sounds a lot like Lydiard's base phase pared down for high schoolers. Steady Mileage at a high end aerobic pace.