MYTH BUSTERS IS GOING TO SEE IF A PLANE TAKES OF FROM A TREADMILL

greenliner wrote:

Yeah, this was actually pretty sad. It was apparent that the plane was actually moving forward- you could see it pass by the cones- which means that the forward speed was in excess of the backward speed..

that's the whole goddamned point! it WILL move forward because it has freely spinning wheels and its engine exerts force upon the air, not the ground.

a plane on a treadmill will take off, and they proved it. (btw you aren't getting friction from the ground through the tarp, just think about it for a second)

because you would need a treadmill as long as a runway, since the speed of the treadmill doesn't affect the speed of the plane* and it would still have to travel just as far to build up the speed needed for takeoff. obviously, a runway-length treadmill would be WAY more expensive than just a runway, so they'll stick with what they've got.

(*the force of friction of the bearings within the wheel axles would be all that would push the plane backward, and that force is negligible when compared to the forward thrust of the engines)

ednye wrote:

The answer is in "Bernoulli's Principle"...no, the plane will not take off. If it did, why would all of the airports waste runway space.

Haha! I can't believe some people still don't get it! They did it exactly right and the plane took off. THINK about it.

The effort that you put into explaining this is admirable, but anyone who doesn't get this by now will never understand it. As simple as the concept is, some people actually lack the mental capacity to understand. You've done a good job explaining, but it is, unfortunately, a waste of time.

Alright, this is for all the people who think that the plane would not take off.

This is what I want you to do. Go in your closet and grab your pair of roller blades or skates that you havn't worn in ten years. Make sure that the ball bearings of your wheels are really lubricated, because we want as little friction as possible. Now lace up your blades/skates, and go jump on your treadmill with them (don't actually jump, we don't want anyone getting hurt). Now while holding on to the hand rail on the front of your treadmill, turn your treadmill up to about 2 miles an hour. Now you should be able to easily hold on and while the belt spins your wheels at 2 miles an hour beneath you. Extend your arms so they are straight and and your skates are toward the back of the treadmill, and then pull yourself towards the front of the treadmill so that your skates are close to the front now. Now do this back and forth, back and forth. Now start increasing the speed of your treadmill faster and faster as you pull yourself back and forth along the belt. Keep increasing the speed untill your treadmill is going as fast as it will go. You should notice something: No matter how fast you made the treadmill go, it took the same amount of effort to pull yourself up to the front of the treadmill. The speed of the treadmill had no influence on the amount of energy it took for you to pull yourself. The only thing you would have to fight is the slight friction that came from your wheels spinning. Now think about this, no matter how fast the treadmill was going, you would always be able to pull yourself forward on it, because your blade or skate wheels are just freewheeling below you. The speed of the belt beneath you does not affect your ability to pull yourself forward.

The airplane example is just like this. The engines pulling on the air to propell the plane forward are like your arms pulling on the bar to propell you forward. It doesn't matter how fast the belt is moving beneath you or the plane, because you and the plane are pulling on something completely detached from the moving belt. So while the wheels of the plane or the wheels of your skates may spin faster and faster underneath you or the plane it doesn't affect you or the planes ability to pull intself forward.

If you really have guts, Go to the airport, put your skates on, and get on one of those moving walkways backwards and notice how easy it is to pull yourself in the apposing direction.

I think that since this myth has been tested it has shown the huge difference between the people who argue for an dagainst it. I for one assumed that the test would be that the treadmill would match the speed of the engine, therefore keeping the plane in place by design, and this speed would be the takeoff speed. There are also the people who believe the myth is that that if you match a stationary surface (even if it is moving at a static high speed) that the plane will take off on it. Whcih means it will be flying at the same takeoff speed relative to the ground..... so the there are two different myths, right?

That was the myth, the speed of the engine matched the speed of the treadmill. Hence, it took off.

Remember the speed of the wheel isn't what makes the airplane take off, its the speed of the engine. Last example. If you had a long enough treadmill, the treadmill could go 500mph and the plane engine could go 100mph and still take off, the wheels would be moving at 600 mph which doesn't match the speed of the engine at all but once again the wheel speed doesn't matter.

That's the whole point scottyT. When you break it down the riddle really asks "Can a treadmill hold a plane in place by moving in the opposite direction at an equal speed?" You didn't misunderstand it, you just got it wrong. You thought the treadmill could hold the plane in place, thus no air over the wings, thus no takeoff. But the treadmill doesn't hold it in place, and CAN'T hold it in place, because it's powered through the air and not on the ground.

You got it wrong. Hell you still have it wrong. The treadmill DID match the plane speed and it still moved forward. "keeping the plane in place by design" is WRONG because it DOESN'T keep the plane in place.

Sheesh.

not busted one bit wrote:

Total BS. The belt did NOT match the speed of the airplane. The fact that it was a prop plane is also I huge factor as the prop produced wind to the wings where as if the plane had been a turbine jet with engines underneath the wings it wouldn't have done anything.

Wow when will you understand this. The belt DID match the speed of the plane. Then plane needs to moving at 25 mph to take off, the belt was moving backwards at 25 mph, the wheels were then most likely spinning at 50 mph, but that doesn't matter because no matter how fast you make that treadmill go the wheels will just spin faster.

It says the belt will match the speed of the PLANE, which it did. That plane takes off at 25 mph, belt moving at 25 mph, is it that hard to understand?

As Harry Kooter pointed out, there is no use in further explaining this. If people don't get it by now, they just don't understand physics. The plane took off and people still don't get it. Just let them think whatever they want to think.

All I know was I was right and explained it just like it happened! Yahoo to me!

Continuing to debate this question even after being provided with convincing, incontrovertible proof, is ridiculous. This debate is no different from the creation vs evolution debate. The creationists, along with the "plane won't take off" crowd, will continue arguing in favor of their point to the death, because they just know they're right. The alternative just don't make no sense. So please, stop arguing. They're not going for all that science nonsense. They know it's not going to take off. The show was nothing but a hoax.

Over at the Mythbusters fan site, people are complaining that the plane was going faster than the tarp, and that's why it moved forward.

They have a valid complaint about the methodology. We can't be sure the pilot kept to the same speed as Jaime.

These people are idiots when it comes to this myth, but they have a good point about how the experiment was done.

i kinda like running wrote:

As Harry Kooter pointed out, there is no use in further explaining this. If people don't get it by now, they just don't understand physics. The plane took off and people still don't get it. Just let them think whatever they want to think.

I think what would really blow the 'not gonna take off' crowd away would be to have independent treadmills under each wheel, each moving at a different speed and you could even have one or two moving in the same direction as the plane. Some people would probably figure the plane would spin around in circles. (Of course, with real world friction, this experiment might not work too well.)