Nutrition: how important to improve running?

Omega Runner:

Not all non-animal sources are lacking a complete protein profile. Quinoa, as mentioned earlier, contains all of the essential amino acids. Furthermore, it IS possible to combine various non-meat sources to achieve a complete profile.

For the record, I'm neither a vegan nor a vegetarian.

Actually I don't think there are any non-animal sources lacking a complete protein profile.

arbiter wrote:

Omega Runner:

Not all non-animal sources are lacking a complete protein profile. Quinoa, as mentioned earlier, contains all of the essential amino acids. Furthermore, it IS possible to combine various non-meat sources to achieve a complete profile.

For the record, I'm neither a vegan nor a vegetarian.

Quinoa is the only one. Do you suggest one eat enough quinoa at each meal to supply all amino acids?

beerintervals wrote:

ACM wrote:

please explain, how could a person be protein deficient?

I would also like to know this. I know many vegetarians and a few vegans, they don't seem to have skin problems, pot- bellies, dementia or anything that typically embodies nutritional deficiency.

You are protein deficient if you don't eat enough complete protein to replace the protein your body uses during the breakdown of tissue during exercise. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I lift several times per week to build muscle. If I didn't eat enough protein in order to repair the muscle tissue that is damaged by heavy exertion then I would be protein deficient. While I am not a body-builder, those people are very tuned into nutritional needs for their activity and sport. My activity level requires a certain level of protein which I'm certain to supplement through adequate intake. We are looking at athletes with heavy training levels; they have higher protein needs than your average person.

i'll do better than the 10-15 foods...

from this clean food list one could pull 10-15 foods that would suffice, but this allows for some choice...

i believe that if any athlete would pull upwards of 90% of his/her diet from this list they would be in excellent shape..

Diet Advice and Grocery List

Here are some examples of healthy food. It is not a comprehensive list, but it is very close. You could use it as a shopping list, and not miss out on any foods you really need to be healthy.

Ironically many of the foods that you would eat for fat-loss are similar to foods that someone would consume to become massively muscular. The main difference is the amount of food that you consume, and at what times. These are all considered "clean" foods.

Best Beverages:

Water

Green Tea

Best Protein Sources:

Lean Chicken breast

Lean Turkey

Lean beef

Salmon (fish)

Tilapia (fish)

Cod (fish)

Tuna (fish)

Orange Roughy (fish)

Egg whites

Whey, Casein or Egg Protein powder (without sugar added, and without soy)

Cottage cheese

Best Fruits & Vegetables:

Broccoli

Spinach

Cauliflower

Onions & Peppers

Asparagus

Carrots

Tomatoes (or tomatoe based sauce)

Apples

Orange

Grapefruit

Tangerine

Cherries

Blueberries

Raspberries

Most Healthy Fats:

Omega-3 egg yolks, or regular egg yolks in moderation

Walnuts

Almonds

Macadamia Nuts

Mixed nuts in general

Natural peanut butter (natural version only, not Peter pan)

Extra Virgin Olive oil

Avocados

Fat from fish

Fishoil supplements

Flax seed and/or Flax oil supplments

Most Healthy Carbs:

Oatmeal (rollled or steel cut oats, not instant oatmeal)

Fiber One cereal

Brown rice

Yams

Sweet Potatoes

Regular or Whole wheat pasta

Black beans

Pinto Beans

Black Eyed Peas

Chick peas

Kidney beans

Lentils

These foods can get somewhat bland, so here is a list of healthy spices and ingredients you can add. There is nothing wrong with these, and they actually have health benefits.

Spices/sauces:

Cinamon

Garlic

Black Pepper

Various types of Mustard (for dipping meats into, or sauce)

Red Wine Vinegar

Stevia (natural sweetener)

Lemon Juice

Real butter (in moderation, since it has calories)

Olive Oil (in moderation, since it has calories)

Obviously, you would want to avoid sugary sauces like ketchup and barbeque sauce, or adding sugar to foods. Also avoid MSG, or adding salt to things.

Cooking Tips:

- Cooking foods in olive oil is healthier than cooking them in canola oil or crisco, or transfat products. Many companies make an olive oil spray now.

- Avoid heating (microwaving) foods in soft plastic containers, or Ceran wrap. When heated, these soft plasics leech chemicals into the food.... which can have carcinogenic and adverse hormonal effects on your body. Use glass in the microwave, or metal on the stove or oven.

Example of Fat loss diet: (Notice that this diet includes protein, fat, vegetables, and only minimal carbs. The carbs are ingested post-workout only.)

Meal One

Egg white/whole egg omelet (4 or 6:1 ratio)

Spinach

Diced onions

Chicken sausage

Cheddar cheese

Meal Two

Chicken, Turkey or Fish

Nuts or Walnuts

Meal Three

Chicken

Salad: (Romaine lettuce, Sliced red onions, tomatoes, and mushrooms, Feta cheese

Olive oil and red wine vinegar dressing)

Meal Four (post workout)

Protein Powder

Oatmeal

Meal Five

Salmon

Asparagus

Meal Six

cottage cheese

almonds

Here is an example of a lean mass building diet: (Notice how there are carbs ingested throughout the day, and more total food.)

Meal One

Egg white/whole egg omelet (4 or 6:1 ratio)

Steel cut oatmeal

Blueberries

Meal Two

Lean Chicken

Chickpeas or beans

Broccoli

Olive oil

Meal Three

Lean ground beef or steak

Tomatoes, onions, and peppers

Butter

Meal Four (Workout)

Workout shake, including protein powder and high glycemic carbs

Meal Five (Post-Workout)

Post-workout shake, including whey protein powder and high glycemic carbs + creatine, glutamine, and BCAAs.

Meal Six

Chicken

Brown rice or oatmeal

vegetables

Olive oil

Meal Seven

Lean Meat

Sweet potatoes, and mixed nuts or pecans added

Side salad

Meal Eight

Cottage cheese

Apple or berries

Almonds

These are just diet examples, but hopefully they give a decent portrayal. All of the calories come from healthy protein, fat, and carbohydrate choices. In both cases, the last meal of the day should not include many carbs. The mass diet simply adds more carbs, and more total protein and calories.

SUGGESTED SUPPLEMENTS:

Vitamins and Minerals:

· Multivitamin

· Vitamin C

· Vitamin E

* B-Vitamin Complex

* ZMA

Healthy Fats:

* Omega-3 Fish Oil Pills

* Evening Primrose Oil

* Flax Seed or Flax oil

Joint Health:

* MSM Powder (for joints and tissue repair)

* Glucosamine sulfate

Muscle-Building Shake for Post workout:

* 5-10g Creatine Monohydrate

* 5-10g Glutamine

* 5-20g BCAA (branch chain amino acid) powder

* 40g+ Whey protein

* 40g+ High-Glycemic Carbohydrate powder (dextrose, glucose, maltodextrin, or Waxy maize)

I just read through all the replies - lots of interesting stuff. I thought I'd throw in the fact that the birthday boy himself, Bill Rodgers, was known to eat junk food quite often - although I think the key is that he did it at the right time (or at least, a 'better' time), right after a run when sugar is needed. Clearly it wasn't too detrimental for him.

I'm not sure who's quote this is - someone witnessed it after running with him, though:

"After one run from his house, we sat down for the day’s first meal at about 1 p.m. Rodgers poured himself a huge bowl of Corn Pops; in his youth, they were more accurately called Sugar Pops, and while eating the renamed teeth rotters, Rodgers continually sang an old jingle, "Sugar Pops is tops." After a few bites, he sprang up, fetched a jar of peanut butter and slathered a hefty amount of it on the rim of his cereal bowl. Then every five bites or so, he’d line the spoon with peanut butter before plunging it into the Corn Pops. At the same time, he drank from a mug. The first few go-rounds, it contained ice cubes and a reconstituted sports drink. Then Rodgers heated up a can of tomato soup, offered me some—"It’s good fluid replacement, you know"—and when I declined, filled the mug with it. When soup time was over, he poured Diet Pepsi into the same mug. What little appetite I had after a hot 18-miler disappeared as I envisioned sports drink, tomato soup and Diet Pepsi molecules battling for space on the slivers of ice that I could hear sliding around in the mug. Rodgers stayed the course."

Happy birthday, Bill! :)

You should ignore all the advice here so far. When it comes to improving your running times, the only advice that really matters is this - eat less, run more.

Try doing that when running 90+ miles a week in your early 20s.

eat less + run more = recipe for injury. as a runner it's better to overeat than to undereat. i'd rather have a few extra pounds than risk an overuse injury because i'm not properly fueling my body.

when would you consider losing weight

- race times not improving?

- height to weight ratio not close to 1:2, i.e. 69 inches 155lbs,

- feel overweight

dat wrote:

eat less + run more = recipe for injury. as a runner it's better to overeat than to undereat. i'd rather have a few extra pounds than risk an overuse injury because i'm not properly fueling my body.

This statement is blatantly false.

Whatitsworth,

My wife eats just like you describe and is very healthy. I've done the same for a few months at a time over the years. Eating that way is not difficult for me really. The thing that always gets me is what to drink? I love coke, gatorade, sweet tea, all sugary drinks. What did you drink and do you have any ideas for substitutes for my favorites?

Obviously a vegetarian doesn't have to only eat Quinoa to get amino acids, as stated earlier, with a varied diet rich in whole grains, veggies, fruits, LEGUMES (lots of BEANS :), and some dairy it is more than possible to get adequate protein. If one chooses to eat meat they still need to eat this variety of healthful foods, or they will be lacking in important parts of the nutritional puzzle(namely fiber). Remember the leading cause of death in America is colon cancer-not vegetarians lacking in protein!!!!

Betty wrote:

Obviously a vegetarian doesn't have to only eat Quinoa to get amino acids, as stated earlier, with a varied diet rich in whole grains, veggies, fruits, LEGUMES (lots of BEANS :), and some dairy it is more than possible to get adequate protein. If one chooses to eat meat they still need to eat this variety of healthful foods, or they will be lacking in important parts of the nutritional puzzle(namely fiber). Remember the leading cause of death in America is colon cancer-not vegetarians lacking in protein!!!!

The leading cause of death in America is not colon cancer --it's heart disease. Please get your facts straight. I've read these posts through and Omega Runner has simply stated that although he eats meat, he doesn't consider it necessary to eat meat to get adequate protein. He does stress that one should include animal sources of non-meat protein such as eggs and dairy in order for an athlete to have a healthy diet, since an athlete who is training has higher protein needs than the average person. He also states that excessive fat, not excessive protein is the enemy and emphasizes that he eats a lot of fruit and vegetables in addition to lean meat and low fat dairy in his diet.

This all sounds very sensible to me. What part don't you understand?

b

Omega Runner,

No, I suggest you be sensible and eat a varied diet that includes all the EAAs. You can do that consuming meat, and you can do it without consuming meat. You don't even need to include quinoa. Imagine that.

ok here is my background:

24 year old female, ran track/xc in college at a decent d-1 school. raced well at around 145 lbs. I am 5'9". I've never had any issues with food and continue to not have problems.

I graduated a few years ago, my weight went up and down for a year or two after, depending on how much I was running. Now after getting a little more than a year of consistent mileage in, my weight has obviously dropped.

My problem now is that my weight is continuing to drop.

One explanation I have is that I drink a LOT less than I used to. I attribute my initial drop in weight to that and I don't want that weight back.

Recently though, I feel like I've been losing muscle. My mileage has been a little higher and more consistant than I have ever been. Right now I am at about 135 lbs. and I feel like I look awful! (No I am not sending pictures.)

I've tried to increase the amount of protein I'm eating...haven't seen much return on that yet. I really try to eat as soon as I can after running but sometimes it is hard. I get made fun of at work for ALWAYS eating because whenever I get a free second, I eat. I have never been this hungry in my life, yet I am losing weight. What else can I do to gain back some of the muscle I feel like I've lost? I don't want to look like the typical too-skinny runner girls....

thanks for any help.

do you do any lifting or weight training?

I try to lift as often as I can, I have about a 20 minute free period in between jobs where I can get a really quick but intense lift in. I usually just do the major muscle groups- I do the leg press, multi hip machine, hamstring curls, rowing machine, lat pulls, biceps, triceps, and if I have some time I do some extra shoulder work becuase I have bad shoulders. On most days I do 2-3 sets of 10 reps, one day a week I try to do 1 set of 8-10 reps with heavier weights. I do yoga at home a few times a week along with lunges, squats, and core work. Perhaps this is just the weight my body is supposed to be at and after all my years of drinking in college, I've finally got it right?