the South Footlocker Regional course

The Southern girls do great every year, so your theory is flawed.

The boys were only 5 points away from 2nd place.

You're right, it is said every single year and people are sick of hearing the same pu$$y excuse. The South doesn't train nearly as hard as the rest of the country. They have by far the largest population of any region and they have perfect weather. Try training in Michigan in January sometime. The South SHOULD be able to dominate by instead gets dominated. Train harder instead of complaining. Hey, just think, with most of the people from Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc slowing moving to Florida, the South will get better. Not because the "South" is getting better, but because more of the North is becoming part of the South.

Besides, didn't Brasovan, Kroeger, and Scott go 1-2-7 this year? And didn't Kroeger and Scott go 1-2 last year? Seems to me like McAlpine sends the right people.

This is a horrible thought. i coach runners on that course and it is not an easy course at all. it is hilly and challenging. I have heard this comment before and it doesnt make any sense. plus we won the individual title this year and were in the hunt in both races.

oh god not again wrote:

You're right, it is said every single year and people are sick of hearing the same pu$$y excuse. The South doesn't train nearly as hard as the rest of the country. They have by far the largest population of any region and they have perfect weather. Try training in Michigan in January sometime. The South SHOULD be able to dominate by instead gets dominated. Train harder instead of complaining. Hey, just think, with most of the people from Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc slowing moving to Florida, the South will get better. Not because the "South" is getting better, but because more of the North is becoming part of the South.

Besides, didn't Brasovan, Kroeger, and Scott go 1-2-7 this year? And didn't Kroeger and Scott go 1-2 last year? Seems to me like McAlpine sends the right people.

I wouldn't say they have perfect weather. In the summer and early fall the heat can be brutal and hamper training

Are you kidding me?? The course is not hard. But I completely agree with the statement that not the best runners qualify out of the south for the boys. If you go out with the leaders, you die.(they go out ridiculously fast) If you go out conservative and try to "move up" there are too many annoying idiots in your way. Therefore, the ones who qualify seem to just be the ones who somehow get to the front. (to an extent of course... obviously some people will qualify no matter what because of superior fitness...) But to say the course itself is hard is absolutely ludicrous. It is pancake flat with one 10 second hill.

Distance running is just not as popular in the South as it is in other regions. The South was five points behind the West today. It is not that the South doesn't train, it is just that it is less deep and running doesn't get as much respect. This is not an excuse, this is the truth, so just chill out before thinking that the South is somehow lazier and offers up excuses, you make yourself look like an uninformed elitist asshole.

Name one person who didn't qualify out of the South region who would have improved their score at nationals. Yeah, that's right.

I disagree with the original poster but I will name one runner who could have placed high if he had qualified - Sean Keverian. I think he has the fastest returning 2 mile time in the nation (in the 8:40's I believe). I'm not making excuses - he didn't perform on the day and so didn't deserve to be there. But I think he's a good enough runner to compete with the top 15.

Name one person who didn't qualify out of the South region who would have improved their score at nationals. Yeah, that's right.[/quote]

oh god not again wrote:

You're right, it is said every single year and people are sick of hearing the same pu$$y excuse. The South doesn't train nearly as hard as the rest of the country. They have by far the largest population of any region and they have perfect weather. Try training in Michigan in January sometime. The South SHOULD be able to dominate by instead gets dominated. Train harder instead of complaining. Hey, just think, with most of the people from Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc slowing moving to Florida, the South will get better. Not because the "South" is getting better, but because more of the North is becoming part of the South.

Besides, didn't Brasovan, Kroeger, and Scott go 1-2-7 this year? And didn't Kroeger and Scott go 1-2 last year? Seems to me like McAlpine sends the right people.

Wow - perfect weather? I'd love to see you try and pound out a long run down here in August. I'll take a Michigan January over that anytime (the grass is always greener....) Of course people whining about the course are just as stupid. It's more of a tradition thing - distance running just isn't well established down here.

8:55 last year, but you're right that he's the #1 returner.

...really! The heat is brutal during june-august. I spend most of my time trying to figure out when it is safe to train during those months.

oh god not again wrote:

You're right, it is said every single year and people are sick of hearing the same pu$$y excuse. The South doesn't train nearly as hard as the rest of the country. They have by far the largest population of any region and they have perfect weather. Try training in Michigan in January sometime. The South SHOULD be able to dominate by instead gets dominated. Train harder instead of complaining. Hey, just think, with most of the people from Ohio, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc slowing moving to Florida, the South will get better. Not because the "South" is getting better, but because more of the North is becoming part of the South.

Besides, didn't Brasovan, Kroeger, and Scott go 1-2-7 this year? And didn't Kroeger and Scott go 1-2 last year? Seems to me like McAlpine sends the right people.

Haha, train harder? You think everyone in the South is training less hard than the rest of the country? That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. You are correct on your point about the girls though, it does seem they always perform well. I am just comparing the South Regional Course to the National one, they are complete opposites. And if you think the best 10 people in the South on a flat course are the same best 10 people in the South on a hilly course you are seriously mistaken. That South course is hardly XC, more like a dirt track. I've run it 4 times and that thing people call a "hill" is nothing more than a short incline. By the time you start hurting you are already to the top and the downhill. That is why the South has a history of runners not finishing, or finishing severely behind what they should be. For example, Brian Sullivan, the winner in 2003 for the South, hardly finished the nats race. Lots of top finishers in the regional races don't do well at nats. Like I said earlier, it takes a tremendously gifted and well-ranged athlete (like Alan Webb) to excel at such different types of courses.

Thoughts wrote:

I disagree with the original poster but I will name one runner who could have placed high if he had qualified - Sean Keverian. I think he has the fastest returning 2 mile time in the nation (in the 8:40's I believe). I'm not making excuses - he didn't perform on the day and so didn't deserve to be there. But I think he's a good enough runner to compete with the top 15.

Name one person who didn't qualify out of the South region who would have improved their score at nationals. Yeah, that's right.

[/quote]

Sean Keveren was injured at the regional. That's why he didn't perform up to expectations

I have seen most the XC course people talk about and McAlpine is by no means an easy course. It is probably an average course, it is not as hard as the NTN course, VCP or Mt Sac, but it is certainly ok for the FLS.

OK, let's end this nonsense. The Footlocker national finals have been held in Balboa Park every year except for 1981, 1982, and 1997-2001, when it was held in Orlando. Orlando was a flat fast course, just like McAlpine, and it is located in the South region. If there is any truth to your post, then the South should have risen above during those years. McAlpine was not used as the South qualifying course in 1981 so I ignored that year. These are the places for the South boys and girls during the 6 years where McAlpine was the qualifier and Orlando the final.

Boys

1982: 6 – 11 – 12 – 14 – 16 – 17 – 24 - 27

1997: 22 – 23 – 26 – 28 – 29 – 30 – 31 - 32

1998: 15 – 16 – 21 – 24 – 25 – 28 – 31 - 33

1999: 8 – 11 – 14 – 16 – 17 – 24 – 29 - 31

2000: 2 – 10 – 11 – 12 – 13 – 16 – 25 - 27

2001: 2 – 6 – 11 – 16 – 17 – 21 – 26 - 32

The South boys have a total of 37 top-10 finishes in Footlocker history. During the McAlpine/Orlando years, the South had 6 top-10s in six years, or 1.0 per year. During the other 23 years, the South had 31 top-10s , or 1.35 per year.

The South boys have a total of 14 top-5 finishes in Footlocker history. During the McAlpine/Orlando years, the South had 2 top-5s in six years, or 0.33 per year. During the other 23 years, the South had 12 top-5s , or 0.52 per year.

The South has two national champions in history, neither of which occurred during the Orlando years.

Summary for the boys:

35% more top-10s in Balboa than Orlando

58% more top-5s in Balboa than Orlando

Two champions in Balboa, none in Orlando

Girls

1982: 4 – 11 – 18 – 23 – 24 – 27 – 28 - 29

1997: 5 – 7 – 19 – 20 – 23 – 26 – 27 - 32

1998: 21 – 25 – 26 – 27 – 28 – 29 – 30 - 31

1999: 16 – 17 – 21 – 23 – 24 – 25 – 31 - 32

2000: 11 – 12 – 19 – 23 – 26 – 28 – 29 - 32

2001: 5 – 8 – 15 – 17 – 28 – 30 – 31 - 32

The South girls have a total of 33 top-10 finishes in Footlocker history. During the McAlpine/Orlando years, the South had 5 top-10s in six years, or 0.83 per year. During the other 23 years, the South had 28 top-10s, or 1.22 per year.

The South girls have a total of 18 top-5 finishes in Footlocker history. During the McAlpine/Orlando years, the South had 3 top-5s in six years, or 0.5 per year. During the other 23 years, the South had 15 top-5s , or 0.65 per year.

The South has four national champions in history, none of which occurred during the Orlando years.

Summary for the girls:

47% more top-10s in Balboa than Orlando

30% more top-5s in Balboa than Orlando

Four champions in Balboa, none in Orlando

Now, can we please not have this ridiculous excuse thread next year?

My team loved the Foot Locker South course! But then, our school does better at track than cross country.

For hillier courses, we worked hills in practice and that helped psychologically probably as much as physiologically.

.... As opposed to the west region who ran their race on a road course this year???? wtf p*ssy.

Why not looking at the one obvious variable among the 4 regions. What would that be?? hmm.... maybe CLIMATE or CULTURE.

It's kinda hard to train in the summer when you deal with a 105 degree heat index and 98% humidity.

As far as culture, you ever seen Easy Rider when the pickup driving redneck wastes the two motorcycle riders with a 12-gauge in Louisiana? That's the culture runners in the south are dealing with in the rural areas.

Why don't you move down here so we can gauge your improvement with similar circumstances? If you aren't willing to do that then move the f*ck to canada.

I love McAlpine, so you suck wrote:

It's kinda hard to train in the summer when you deal with a 105 degree heat index and 98% humidity.

Althogh I disagree with you (especially since I've lived in the South most of my life and have never seen 105 degrees with 98% humidity), for the sake of playing Devil's Advocate I'll agree with you: the North has better training weather than the South in the summer and therefore should dominate the South in CC. So, now if you are going to use that reasoning then you need also to agree with this statement: The weather in the South during the winter is MUCH better than that of the North, giving the South a huge advantage in track season. While the South is dealing with 45-60 degrees, places like the New England states, upstate New York, Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, Montana, and many other places along the Canadian border are dealing with bone-chilling temperatures. It is a lot different training in 50 degrees than it is training in 10 degrees with a 15 below wind chill. Therefore, the South should dominate the North in the distance events in track season.

So, explain to me why the South does not dominate the North during the spring track season.

Hey dot guy,

It's been 24 hours and you haven't even tried to dispute my comparison between Orlando and Balboa. If you're so convinced that the course is the cause of the South's performances at nationals, then lay out your facts.