Arkansas?

Cormier's gone. This program is in the tank. Asst. Coach gets 'em put on probation. FL champ leaves. Worst showing ever at nationals. Damn.

Most kids would probably rather live in Northern California, Oregon, Boulder or Madison. I know I'd prefer to live there than Bubbaville.

Pretty soon, all Northwest Arkansas will be known for is WalMart and Tyson Chicken Chunks.

they'll bounce back, watch and see. quite a few ran crappy on yesterday.

It's good and necessary for the sport for dynasty's to fall. I don't want to watch the same teams consistently at the top every year. I wouldn't call this year a changing of the guard, but it was nice to see everything get shaken up.

Northwest Arkansas is actually a great place to run, go to school, and live. Most people who refer to it as "Bubbaville" have probably never been there or have only flown into the airport and driven straight back and forth from the hotel to the indoor track. Fayetteville is a great town and the campus and area is beautiful. People there are no more "Bubba" then at any of these other programs mentioned. It's actually a pretty progressive town.

On the Cormier situation: be careful where you place blame, you might be surprised.

On the rest of the team, something happened, maybe Mac needs to open up and take the team to a meet where it's heavy up front. Maybe coach mac needs to change tactics at the national meet and not have the team go out in the lead only to fade back. Colorado has proven the past few years that the race can be won from back to front (maybe it didn't work as well this year).

Obviously something needs to be fixed because it's been a few years since guys have stepped up and I'm hardly one to talk, but as a Hog fan it's tough to see such a classy program perform so poorly at a national meet. Don't vilify these guys though, many of them are great guys and have worked really hard but for whatever reason the training just isn't getting it done at the national cross meet. Hopefully Mac will figure something out and these guys will be back where they belong.

Ok, I see where you guys are going with all of this...before I recall the glory days and remind you how Arkansas dominated like nobody (including Standford, Wisco, Villanova, etc.), I will remind you to simply respect a great man who built a great program.

The Hogs had a terrible day. Granted. You guys got us. 23rd is a sad and pitiful day, and those guys should be ashamed to wear the jersey. In my opinion, its their fault and not Coach Mac's. I can say that because I bled red for 4+ years. I had bad days, but I never embarassed the school like these 7 blokes did. 200+ place? Whether you're a proponent of Arkansas or not, you have to realize that this is simply "SHITTING THE BED."

My point is this: John may be done, but he's done because he is tired of dealing with spoiled kids, the bureaucracy of the NCAA and the bullshit that goes into the good 'ol boys club, which he's never been a part of. The latest slap in the face from the NCAA is insulting.

He is the greatest coach of NCAA history. He has coached the most dominating NCAA XC teams, indoor teams and outdoor teams in modern history...(yes, even compared to the UTEP team--compare margins of victory).

Thanks for your contributions to the sport, John.

Where is kenny cormier going or is he retiring??

Yeah, blame the athlete's, it's never the coaches fault. If the team runs bad, it's because the athlete's didn't try hard enough.

I'll bet you they gave it everything they had yesterday. It was just an off day. It's a shame to see you belittle the efforts of those who give so much on a daily basis. Especially when you have experienced that sacrifice first hand.

is it??? wrote:

So can we finally say that Arkansas's reign is over and its time for big mac to retire? I mean this is the WORST placing they have ever gotten in the history of the school, their girls placed higher then them for the first time ever. Seriously colorado had a bad day and got 7th, Arkansas had a bad day and got 23rd. Too bad to see a dynasty go down the toilet.

Let's see how they bounce back in track. They have a bunch of 14 flat guys like Barnicle, Hill, Munoz, Strang and MacPherson. Forrest is a little faster. If these guys can drop their times to the 13:40s I don't think you can view the year for Arkansas as an unmitigated disaster. If MacPherson and Hill had run near Barnicle the team would've been eleventh. Barnicle didn't even have a good day either, nor would that be a good day for either of those two ran around where he was. In truth, on a good day #2-#5 should all be right there with Munoz. That would be 260ish and 6'th place and no one would be decrying the end of the Hogs. They bombed at Nationals, but they won SEC's and the Regional Meet and they can redeems themselves in track.

I've been to Fayetteville hundreds of times. The downtown area is nice. Tim's serves great beer and is a great hangout. The little bookstore across from Jose's is great. Breakfast at Gaylord's is great. The new library is one of the best I've seen.

Get outside of that area, and you're smack in the middle of Bubbaville. The growth is strangling the place and killing its character. You know good and well that place is full of rednecks. Just take a stroll through that WalMart over by the mall sometime.

Overall, it's got some nice things but it's smack in the middle of WalMart land.

"In my opinion, its their fault and not Coach Mac's"

-well said. as someone who ran for john for 5 years as a hog, the training programme has not deviated. the gutless kids who want everything handed to them and aren't willing to hammer the old loops like paul, frank, falcon, reub, hanley, power, baker, or cragg did are at fault. things are not the same. the intensity is no longer there. not a good ending for john.

Where's the link that shows Cormier is gone?

Bad Food? wrote:

Has anyone considered that they may have all ate some bad stuff? I mean Forrest ,Mcphearson, and Barnicle should all have been top 30

I just dont understand this is just bizzare.....I mean I would have been less suprised if they would have won instead of 3rd to last?

Huh? I haven't seen anything this year to indicate those 3 should have been top 30. MacPherson's the only one of those 3 who was close last year (49th or so?). And I thought there was no way they would get top 10 (and I was way right).

People thought they would run well this year because they're Arkansas, not because they've shown any good results this year...

Didn't they have four guys that were in the 2004 footlocker race, including the winner? Seems like they should be a little further along with that kind of talent.

Mcdonnell probably didn\'t allow them to eat for the week leading up to the meet. They had no energy. Everyone knows the hogs are a big group of manorexics.

Mate, I ran 34:xx in training 5 times a week...these guys are not the same breed.

Arkansas wrote:

Mate, I ran 34:xx in training 5 times a week...these guys are not the same breed.

and how many national titles did YOU win?

oregon would have eaten your ass out, too

1. Coach Mac has lost his mind

2. Coach Mac should retire

3. A few of those guys should follow Cormiers lead and transfer.

4. Cragg is a pothead

5. only maybe one or two guys drink on the team

6. the ex hogs can go do their dog, i'm glad your ashamed to be a hog because of a race. you probably never got your degree from arkansas, but you did get a national champ ring so your okay with that.

7. Fayetteville is a nice area, and the bubbaville parts are just as nice and they lack the traffic that more "urban" areas have.. so go suck a weiner

8. Coach Mac has lost his touch

9. Coach Mac should retire

and the final one...

10. the end is coming

nice guy - I did run at a good D1 program, albeit over 25 years ago. And I went there on a full scholarship, and am familiar with the rigors of college running. More importantly, I improved only modestly in college (3:40 1500), so I can speak from the vantage point of knowing what I could have done far better. Our good runners (most had just graduated when I god there, but I still trained with them) generally did not drink much - on the other hand, at my brother's D1 school (he was equally if not more accomplished), many did. Not sure this means anything - those of us that really hit the books - most of my teammates went to fairly impressive graduate schools - and we didn't have much energy or time to party or drink - a fact we live with some regret over today!! We certainly didn't attract many women!

And the point was not to vilify drinking per se, but rather to state that in many cases it is subject to hyperbole, and that also some can handle it better than others, and for those that don't handle it well, being 18-22 is not the most stellar time in life to make realistic judgments and assessments about one's strengths and weaknesses, especially in social situations where peer pressure is intense. Some would be better just to avoid it altogether rather than constantly test a line over which some harm may be done. If were a college coach, I would be tempted to draw a fairly harsh line on drinking for this reason, but not sure I would do so out of a sense of realism and an intuition that the best lessons learned for young people are those that they obtain themselves - in this case, the appropriate comfort level regarding drinking, and finding an appropriate balance between social life, academics, and the incredible rigors of D1 running. In short, I would impress the importance of being honest with one's self and being accountable - not an easy thing to do even for the most mature and capable.

Poker wrote:

Let's see how they bounce back in track. They have a bunch of 14 flat guys like Barnicle, Hill, Munoz, Strang and MacPherson. Forrest is a little faster. If these guys can drop their times to the 13:40s I don't think you can view the year for Arkansas as an unmitigated disaster. If MacPherson and Hill had run near Barnicle the team would've been eleventh. Barnicle didn't even have a good day either, nor would that be a good day for either of those two ran around where he was. In truth, on a good day #2-#5 should all be right there with Munoz. That would be 260ish and 6'th place and no one would be decrying the end of the Hogs. They bombed at Nationals, but they won SEC's and the Regional Meet and they can redeems themselves in track.

Is this post for real? By using this slippery slope, you can get every team that ran at nationals in the top 10... Arkansas is just not that good anymore. And don't give me this "no talent" bullshit. They have more footlocker guys on their team than the entire SEC put together.

Note* This post IS biased because I f***ing hate Arkansas