long base-building or marathon buildup

Age? Do you need a 3:10 or a 3:40?

http://baa.org/BostonMarathon/Qualifying.asp

Experience? Have you run 20k's or Halfs?

Current fitness level at 30-35 miles per week?

I wouldn't call 30-35 miles per week Lydiard Training.

Try 7 hours a week for six months (9-10 min miles).

Go to 8 hours a week in the seven month.

Add one more hour of running per week in the eigth month.

You don't need any speed workouts or tests...try 10k's and ten milers if you want to run faster.

What results from your shorter races think you might be able to run sub 7 minute miles for 26?

a real coach wrote:

Age? Do you need a 3:10 or a 3:40?

http://baa.org/BostonMarathon/Qualifying.asp

Experience? Have you run 20k's or Halfs?

Current fitness level at 30-35 miles per week?

I wouldn't call 30-35 miles per week Lydiard Training.

Try 7 hours a week for six months (9-10 min miles).

Go to 8 hours a week in the seven month.

Add one more hour of running per week in the eigth month.

You don't need any speed workouts or tests...try 10k's and ten milers if you want to run faster.

What results from your shorter races think you might be able to run sub 7 minute miles for 26?

45. Need a 3:30. I've run several half-m's - the last in Sept in Philly 1:44:48. I know 30-35 mi isn't Lydiard, so I've been toying with the idea of moving up mileage significantly.

I like your idea - 7 hrs would be 45/wk. I could probably safely handle that.

How many days a week? I'm currently at 5. Is the May marathon OK (maybe at 8:45-9 min/mi)?

Thanks for your help.

I don't know that "Lydiard base-building" is really so different from "a specific marathon buildup". I haven't read Lydiard in the original but have seen his "base" referred to as "marathon conditioning".

And that phase ain't supposed to be long hours of nothing but lollygagging. It seems not so terribly far in composition from, for example, the Hansons' "marathon plan for the masses" (which also includes some weeks with a speedier workout in the first half).

Far and away the most important thing you can do is increase your mileage. If you were averaging 35 with a high water mark between say 40-50, the Hanson plan should be within your reach - it peaks around 60-65 a week. You could do a lot worse. Follow it verbatim if you prefer being a slave to the literal written word, or absorb and incorporate its principles (mostly: a lot of long MP and slightly faster tempo workouts, long runs that aren't a ridiculously high % of your total weekly mileage, and run "a lot", whatever that means for you... and if you're coming from 35 MPW, their plan as written would be a lot) into your training as you see fit.

It wouldn't shock me if you improved your time by those 10-15 minutes in your spring marathon, on the strength of higher mileage and more marathon experience. Why do you count out the possibility of shaving 10-15 minutes in six months? At 35 MPW you have an awful lot to gain by just running more.

Thanks. I guess I've always equated "Lydiard" training with lots of slow miles. Looking over some of the threads here (and your response) suggests that's not very accurate. I've looked at the Hanson's plan. My biggest hangup with it is it peaks at 16mi for the long runs. I'm more of a fast-twitcher than endurance (ran the 880 in high school) and feel like I need some really long runs to have a chance at finishing strong. Then again, I've never tried their plan and I see they talk about built-in residual fatigue substituting for the single long-run. Maybe its time to experiment. Won't cost anything but an entry fee.

One more question. I've found the Hanson speed workouts, but not the strength workouts. They're just listed as 'strength'. Any idea what these are (or what they should be like)?

Strength workouts are 6 miles worth of repeats at 10 seconds per mile faster than goal pace. The key is to not run them too fast.

Examples include

6x1 mile with 1/2 jog

3x2 mile with 1 mile jog

4 x 1-1/2 with 1/2 jog

yes wrote:

Strength workouts are 6 miles worth of repeats at 10 seconds per mile faster than goal pace. The key is to not run them too fast.

Examples include

6x1 mile with 1/2 jog

3x2 mile with 1 mile jog

4 x 1-1/2 with 1/2 jog

Thanks!

This is what I did.

Age 49 at the time.

Ran a tough Marathon on the same mileage as you have been doing.4:08

Had a month easy then continued running easy while upping the Mileage, included some hill repeats and tempos.

Ran a second moderate Marathon(L.A.) 4 months after the first.I ran this with a pace group.

I neg split by 8 minutes.3:42.

This gave me a huge amount of confidence as the target race was flat,fast and local.

I had 5 months to prepare.

I was now running about 45m per week.

I continued to run most of my mileage easy.

A hill run once a week of 8 miles

A tempo building to 50 minutes.

A consistent and building long run- max 21m

The odd race up to half Marathon.

Speedwork:Once a week for ten weeks. Starting at 5x600metres 3min static rest on week one.

Progressing 5x 800's,5x1k's,5x1200"s to 5x1500.

When you feel you have one distance covered ,increase distance.

I never ran more than 45 miles per week.(except for Marathon week)

Taper was always 3 weeks.

Result 3:22 BQ.

Goodluck.

Thanks very much. This sounds a lot like my situation. I'm also encouraged that you improved so much in a year by boosting mileage to ~45/wk. During my last buildup, I did 5 or six runs over 16 miles, including a couple of 20 milers. So I'm also intrigued by the previous poster's suggestion of using the Hanson plan which peaks around 50 miles, but limits long runs to 16 mi.

I'd be curious to hear from anyone who's used the Hanson plan. With a 16mi long run, did you feel strong at the end of the marathon or feel like a few longer runs would have helped?