to all runners, and their families, working damn hard, Running to excel

You have struck a chord and conversation that my family is having and in particular my husband and I about two of our children who are running D1 in college . We live in Ohio and just finished state meet at Scioto Downs.There have been several incidents of late where young athletes have been severely injured coming into the finish of a cross country race.one girls tibia broke in 2 places and she crumpled to the ground and crawled across the finish line.One boy at state dropped just before the finish got back up and dropped again,an ambulance took him away.Daniel Tauro had a painful finish at the pre national race because of a disease she is battling.Flo Track is showing a video of a pre national girls race where runners are being dragged of the finish line.There are many other incidents of young athletes pushing themselves, perhaps past the limits.My question is, are we letting young athletes push themselves beyond there capabilities as athletes?

I think it is an individaul choice. I am glad my parents never limited what sports I could do or told me how hard to try.

A better question is should we let our young drivers get licenses when they are 16. I guarantee scores more of young people die in car accidents than in sports in general!

There are mone inuries in probably 10 football games then there are in a years worth of xc meets. Bad things happen to good people. It doesn't make sense but thats the way it is. The day that we stop trying 100% is the day that our sport dies. Our sport lives on the athletes who leave it all on the track/course.

Yeah, why are we letting athletes give 110%, when they could just give 80-90%. By letting them give their all, we are teaching a terrible lesson. I mean, they could hurt themselves.

I felt nothing but pride the first time my son puked after one of his HS XC meets. It took him a couple of years to really learn how to give everything in a race. His times and results are much better now and he absolutely loves running.

I, for one, would never tell him to 'take it easy' in a race.

You miss the point. I am not talking about giving 100% or 110%.Where did I say that? Any sport is all about competition,but should someone with a stress fracture or a diagnosed illness or pneumonia be competing as a young adult.Is the decision to compete ,left to the high school runner or are we having young athletes compete at any cost?Watch pre-nats video. Those girls are dropping like flies.Is that for them, or for you coach?FASTER,FASTER,FASTER-- at the cost of there health? How many are going to get Nike contracts?

Haji,puking is basically a common race occurance.This is not one of my concerns.

the theatrics displayed after female D1 CC meets isn't typical. i'd like to get a heart rate monitor on those girls and I bet 1/10 would be maxed in the last 100 meters. the rest are just following suit by collapsing, crying, and being completely wiped out after the race.

Cautious observer, three of our 4 children had D1 athletic scholarships --so competition ,and hurting themseleves was never the issue. This observation was made after watching state and pre-nats .

There is a very hard line to cross when an athlete is ill, or injured or sick, and a competition or a team or a coach or even family push them (or motivate them or urge them) to compete. That decision sometimes ellicits great joy, and sometimes the result is great sadness, with all emotions between them. There are some great stories of wonderful successes when athletes overcame illness and competed and gave their best. There are also tragic ones. I for one do not want to see the ability to compete based on some regulation. I would hope that it would come down to the individual athlete (except of course for younger athletes, but then again, how young is too young to make decisions for oneself in competition?)

If the purpose of life is not to struggle against adversity and work for excellence, what would you say it is? Sloth?

Let people figure out what is important to them, and let them do it.

The thing I dont understand about this thread is that these kids who are puking and collapsing are simply poorly trained. A race should not feel hard. All this stuffabout "pushing yourself" and giving 110% is silly. You can't give 110%. You can only give what you are trained to give. It's not admirable or even good for you to be collapsing during a race.

When I see someone collapse in fatigue or exhaustion I don't see that as admirable. I see it as them simply being unprepared on the given day. Now obviously there ar exceptions like Ryan Shay having an undiagnosed heart condition or someone snapping their femur in half, but for the most part when people collapse in exhaustion in high school races they are simply immature and poorly trained.

Thankyou,two different things --you made my point better than I did.

This is a good discussion. I wonder if age offers a perspective that a youthful runner can't understand.

Twin, if you have kids that ran D1, you know then that the eating disorder issue with some of these girls is scary. I wonder how many have life long problems, even though encouraged to keep the weight off by parents, coaches, teammates, the clock, etc.

I also have seen the pressure kids feel, whether imposed or implied, that causes them to bonk. Last year I carried a girl who collapsed at the finish of our class meet to medical attention. She raced the following week at the state meet. I wouldn't have raced her (9th grade) for all the tea in China that next week. Some set of issues made the immediate challenge more important than her long term training and health.

There is a price to success. These issues are a dark side that people don't like to acknowledge.

Boston28 thanks for your perspective.The 2 that are running D1 college have not had any problems as of yet.They have a great coach and if they are sick or injured they don't run,period.However, he has a deep field of talent to pull from.This is not the case in most high school cross country teams.Many times a race may come down to one high school star.We had this experience also.Our daughter was injured and should not have run a race.She, having the maturity level of a typical 15 year old said she was fine and ran anyway.The injury was made worse by her running and she was out for most of the next year.So,if she had one ,she would have brought another title to her school,but the injury would have still followed the race.Had she not run,who knows what she would have been able to accomplish the next year of high school.Hind sight is 20/20--shoulda,coulda,woulda,as we like to say.

It is reassuring to get some perspective based on some well-told personal experience.

My gut feeling is that some athletes out there (with or without coach guidance,) especially young ones, confuse "courage" with being "wreckless"; "self-awareness" with "excessive caution," or maybe even "cowardice."

A "race" or "sporting event" with a "conquest" or "life-threatening battle."

I am in no way negating the inherent risk with elite sporting activities. No less in running, where according to the NYT article posted on this board the number of deaths seems to me phenomenally high (and absurdly related to Healthcare costs!!)

But in a healthy mind, in a healthy athlete, that's all it should be: inherent risk. Not a desired death-wish of sorts.

Sort of like Free Climbing: apart from showmanship, there is no reason why you can't do exactly the same difficult slope, the same athletic climb without a safety buckle. You are stil free climbing. The difference is if you slip, and slip you can, you hang in mid air and do not fall and die.

As another poster wrote, I would also tend to associate excessive suffering with poor training and not with lack of character or sense of purpose. Beyond the elementary principles of supercompensation, there is infinite research indicating that rest is fundamental; it is part of training. It is part of getting stronger, better, faster. The body needs to recover. The mind needs to recover. Yes it will cost time. But this will only seem expensive to the insecure; to those who fear ageing, to those who fear the passing of Time. It, in reality, should be an investment for good days to come.

Good athletes need rest and nourishment. And i can't imagine that some emotional support would not be appreciated. Now, keep in mind that if you grew up poor in Kenya or Ethiopia, rest might mean only walking 5 miles to school instead of the usual 12. And not slacking on the couch. And good nourishment could be an extra bowl of milimili and some canned meat. Not pigging out on your favorite food because you know you are going to run it off.

While the sink-or-swim, kill-or-be-killed, conquer-or-be- enslaved could very well seem to be useful on military battlefields, does it work in Sports? Running? Professional or otherwise?

I sense too many talented people giving up. Too many others discouraged at the outset to even develop an interest. Too many talented individuals getting injured and losing motivation. Does it make sense? And all things considered, some might say way too many casualties...

agree, its the coaches job and responsibility to ensure that runners are coached and train to the best of their ability, and to watch for signs of burnout, injury, illness, staleness etc.

This is why it is vital for coaches to be properly qualified to work with athletes and prepare them for racing and winning.

Excellent posts here. Good luck to all.

bests to you Boston28 and the others. And if i were in beantown i would just feel inclined to offer you a post-running cup of tea... take care