steady is about 6minute miling, easy is as slow as necessary to recover.
steady is about 6minute miling, easy is as slow as necessary to recover.
Just hammering your 1000s and Miles with long rests is not the best approach.
Another good way to work out is 1000s with short rest such as 1 min. When you can do about 10X1000 in 3.00 exactly with 60 seconds rest then you are ready.
Mike Fuller
Club: Hercules Wimbledon athletic club
Home: Tooting Bec, London SW17
Occupation: Clerk at the Royal College of Music, London
Best running years: around the early 1970's
Best times: 3:55/1500, 8:13/3000, 14:17/5000, 29:22/10.000
49:00/10 miles, 1:44/20 miles
Training: Mike had a very simple training throughout his career.
From Monday to Friday: Mike would run 5 miles at lunchtime around Hyde Park in about 30 minutes. He had exactly 1 hour of freetime at lunch to run, shower, and eat, so he wasted no time. He would be back at his desk, 60 mins. later, having run 5 miles, and grabbed a meal in the College cafeteria.
In the evenings he would usually run another 5 miles from Lauriston Cottage, Wimbledon Common. When he was training for track races, he would do some intervals on the grass fields on the lower parts of Wimbledon Common.
Mike was a great hedonist, and for years he would usually go to the pub (The Rose and Crown, Wimbledon Common) after his evening run at Lauriston. He would often finish the night off with a meal at 'Tootsies' where he would usually have steak and chips or chicken and chips.
Mike could put back prodigious quantities of ale, but looking at his build (very slim) you would never guess that.
Never drove a car. Always used a scooter to go everywhere.
Saturdays: Would usually be a race, or 6 miles fartlek
Sundays: 10 miles from Lauriston in the group. Mike would just jog along, usually taking the mickey out of runners who had ran a race the day before.
Basic mileage for Mike: 50-70 miles a week.
In the summer, Mike usually took about 8 weeks vacation from the Royal College and would spend that time in places like Corfu (Greece).
A lifelong bachelor, Mike, nevertheless, enjoyed going on holiday in his later years with organizations like 'club 18-30'
Mike was and still is, regarded very highly at Lauriston. He had charisma, and could 'out talk' anybody when it came to running and many other subjects.
If you went to a pub in South West London, and Mike was there - he would always be the focus of attention. Everyone would gather around Mike. He had a mesmerizing quality.
On a trip that Hercules Wimbledon took to East Germany in 1978 (organized by Maurice Sharp), all the kids in East Germany would gather around Mike, and ignore everyone else. He looked like a pop star, acted like one, and dressed like one. He looked like a much slimmer version of Frank Zappa - with the big mustache, and fashionable clothes. The charisma Mike exuded was phenomenal. He could have sold refrigerators to the Inuit (eskimoes) if needed, I'm sure.
In those days, many good runners would just run two 30 minute runs per day, with a race on Saturday and 10 miles on Sunday. On that type of training they would break '30' for 10.000 with ease. Many others trained the same way. People like Bob Gevers (SLH, 14:08/5000) and Richard Samuels (similar times). Of course Mike did sessions, but most of those were on a grass track on the lower fields of Wimbledon Common.
When I ran my pb 5000 on the cinder track at Wimbledon Park track in 15:17.4, (August 1978, Melbourne Trophy), Mike was in that race, and I managed to follow him almost all the way, going through 3000 in 9:10 and hanging on to Mike. We both wore flats that day. Mike had some achilles problems. Of course Mike was past his best in 1978, but for a guy like me to be able to follow him was an honor. Bob Holt won the race that day in about 14:40, with John Roberts also under '15' minutes. After the race, Mike took the mickey, asking me why I never tried to get in front of him.
Now, aged 60 plus, and still living in the same house in Tooting Bec, Mike is still able to run 5km races in around 19 minutes. He is sort of like Mick Jagger (Rolling Stones) - young in spirit, looks and way of life.
Ghost
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Bob Holt
Club: Hercules Wimbledon
Best years: late 60's to mid 70's
Best times: 1500 3:51, 3000 7:59, 5000 13:48, 10.000 28:39, marathon 2:16
Typical winter training: (All once a day, except for 8 weeeks of some 2 a days when training for his Harlow marathon debut in October 1975).
Monday: 6pm 10 miles progressive run on the roads around Wimbledon, from Lauriston cottage, with about 20 runners, including many runners worth around 29-30 minutes for 10.000 (Gevers, Fuller, Gough, Lipell,Roberts et al..) The 10 miles would start 'steady' at about 6:30 per mile for the first mile or so, but then would get progressively quicker as the miles rolled by, often finishing at about 5:20 mile pace....or quicker. Some runs were completed in 52 minutes on occasion...but usually around 60 minutes....or a bit faster.
Tuesday: 6pm Jog down to the playing fields at Putney Vale (2 miles/15 minutes) followed by repetitions on the fields, with favorites being around 800-1000m on the grass, with large groups of athletes - jog back. Total mileage - 8 miles
Wednesday: 8 miles steady with group, on roads (hilly) 6-6:30 mile pace, or faster if Glynn Gough was pushing the pace. Bob just followed, with Gevers - impassive as ever..
Thursday: Similar session to Tuesday, with times repetitions on grass, or hill repeats on the road. 8 miles total.
Friday: Steady 5 miles ('idiots' 5 mile road course out towards Putney and back)
Saturday: Race or 6 miles steady, or rest. Bob often took days off.
Sunday: 15 mile run with large pack from Lauriston. Starting real slow (8 minute miles with Arthur Whitehead at the front) - but getting faster over Richmond Park.
Total miles per week - 60 miles average
Bob only trained once a day, unlike his brother Dave....and he usually beat Dave, but Dave made the British Olympic team for Munich 10.000, and Bob watched his brother on telly.
Ghost in Korea
Great thread. Sounds like the recipe is:
Doubles
1 Speed Day
1 Strength Day
1 Long Run
1 Medium-Long Run
Fill in the rest with easy and steady running
In regards to Mike Fuller. If someone can run those times on 50 to 70 mpw and can take 8 weeks off per year one word comes to mind: TALENT. There is some natural stuff there. The stuff you don't have to work to get.
Hercules Wimbledon had a large squad of runners capable of 30mins for 10k in those days. The competition between them probably helped bring the times down. Nowadays with 1 or 2 exceptions athletes train on their own as their isnt the strength in depth within their club to push them.
just from what I have seen guys on my team do. I am shooting for around 30 this spring.
400s with 100 rest at about race pace. 20 to 30 of those. Can also do every 4th or 5th with 400 rest.
100s at tempo with 45 to 60 secs rest.
10 mile tempos pretty hard
I don't think our team ever has more than a minute rest on recovery. Multiple guys each year go under 30 or under 1430.
I would just say lots of tempo and pace with short recovery. Theres no reason to run a lot faster than 10k pace until maybe the 2 weeks before the race. I would say just run as much mileage that you can handle while still being able to run the workouts hard enough and not getting injured. Double if you can and it feels like its worth it.
above is supposed to say 1000s with 45 to 60 sec rest
Mon: 5am easy ; 7pm easy
Tues: 5am easy ; session 6*1km 2:50-2:55 off 1min recovery
Wed: 5am easy; 10 steady pm
Thur: 5am easy; pm hour incl 20min tempo
Fri: 5am easy; pm 5 easy
Sat: 16*400m in 69s off 45s recovery
Sun: 90mins easy
William Struyven
Club: Stade Laurentin, South of France
age: mid thirties (2007)
Height: 6 feet, weight 145 pounds
Running style: weird head bobbing (like Paula Radcliffe) but huge - huge stride which eats up the ground (like Bob Treadwell). Struyven has a fantastic build - long legs under a short trunk, somewhat like a white Kenyan in that respect.
Weakness: Very poor basic speed. I have never seen him run under 60 seconds for a flat out 400 on the track, but he is a diesel who can operate close to his top speed for almost one hour of running, hence his impressive half marathon time.
Best times: 1500 3:56, 10.000 29:02, half marathon 1:03
Training:
Monday - 45 minutes progressive run, starting at 4:00 per km, and finishing at around 3:20 per km
Tuesday - 55 minutes steady run, around 3:50 per km
Wednesday - track at Cagnes sur Mer. Warm up - 20 minutes steady, strides. Then 3 times 2000, starting in around 6:20 and finishing in 5:50-6:00, with 3 minutes recoveries between sets
Thursday - steady run 50 minutes, starting at 4:20 per km, and working down to about 3:40 per km
Friday - rest
Saturday - 2 laps of Vaugrenier Park, Villeneuve Loubet, with first lap of the park (about 5.5km) in 22 minutes, and second lap in 18 minutes...this is a progressive run, which gets faster and faster, and simulates close to race speed at half marathon
Sunday - 10-15km mixture of roads and Vaugrenier Park (dirt/stony surface park). Pace, as always, between 4:00 per km, and working down to 3:20-3:30 pace in the last 20 minutes of the run.
Sunday afternoon - 2 hour bike ride in the hills around Nice, with Pascal Drewitz (3:43/1500, 8:37/steeple, 2:20/marathon), Cyril Perez (2:21/marathon) and a few others.
As you can see from this, William is one of the lightest trained elite athletes I have known, only covering, on average between 10-12km per day, for a total mileage of about 70-80km per week (55 miles a week).
His best distance, I feel is the half marathon, where for many years he challenged the Kenyans in the Nice Half Marathon, when running in the 1:03-1:04 range.
His marathons have not been successful, and the reason, one suspects, is the lack of overall mileage.
William is a true professional runner, with a career in the French 'chasseurs alpins' but almost full detachment to train as a running professional and represent the army.
Ghost in Korea
The Moroccan formula: Runners in the 27:00-28:00 range
1. Most runs in the 40-45 minutes range, twice a day.
2. Bulk of runs, progressive runs, with pace starting at 4:00 per km, and working down to 3:20 or faster.
3. Long run, seldom over 60 minutes, except for the marathon guys, but even they seldom like to run over 90 minutes.
4. A day or two in the gym, with light weights and many repetitions.
5. Overall mileage at around 80-90 miles a week.
6. Track training - classic distances with relatively short rests. Example 8 times 1000 starting at around 2:50 and working down to high 2:30's and 2:40's with 1:20 rest jog in between sets.
7. Group training culture - collectivist culture, unlike Americans and Europeans who are from individualistic cultures and like to do it on their own. Collectivist cultures win in general. Big advantage in having the training groups, and there is always someone to push the pace.
8. During Ramadan fasting, some athletes train at weird hours, and sleep during the daylight, and others lead normal lives and hours, and sacrifice for Allah and the Korean. The ramadan is good for athletes, and allows them to cleanse the body - Mashallah, Hamdullilah!
This was the system that Salah Hissou (former world record holder in the 10.000/26:38) used and many other Moroccans.
The Moroccans hate running long, but they do a lot of threshold running. They do not have the patience or temperament to run real slow (like the Kenyans) on their easy runs.
And before the cynics say: 'Moroccans are on drugs' - you should know that with drugs or without them, Moroccans have great talent for running.
Ghost in Korea
Ghost, William Struyven is still racing, but he is now an Elite Duathlete. Interesting that he was already dabbling witht he cycling back then....was he already racing duathlon?
Pictured here, with the Mulhouse Olympique Duathlon team from a couple of years ago.....including the late and great Benny Van Steelant.
Balance is key wrote:
Goes something like this for most of the season, not really much variation during the year except for 2-3 months of base season with just distance and tempo runs and some sharpening work before major/goal races. This basic set-up allows for effective racing from 5k to HM.
Mon: am 5 miles easy pm 8-10 miles easy + strides
Tue: am 5 miles easy pm Strength Work (Tempo Run or Cruise Intervals)
Wed: am 5 miles easy pm 8-10 miles easy
Thu: am 5 miles easy pm 8-10 miles easy + strides
Fri: am 5 miles easy pm Speed Work (intervals between 400 and 2000 meters long with a quarter to half distance jog between each)
Sat: am 5 miles easy pm 8-10 miles easy
Sun: 15-18 miles easy (sometimes uptempo last few miles)
Total 90-100 miles week
Times:
5k - low to mid 14's
8k - 23's
10k - 29's
15k - 45-46's
HM - 1:05-1:06's
Question to this poster and any of the other sub-30 guys who posted on this thread: do you take any rest periods during the year?
I am a 31:55 guy trying to bring my time down and I have just built my schedule up to the point that it resembles this one (in the past I did less mileage, which is why I think my PR is not very good). But I'm also approaching the end of cross-country season. In the past at this time of year I would take 2 weeks completely off, then start base-building at around 65% of maximal volume, taking about 2 months to work the volume all the way back up before starting track workouts.
I get the sense though that 30:00 10k guys get that way by consistent 90-100 mpw with tempos, intervals, long runs, etc. I don't picture you guys taking 10 weeks twice a year just to get your mileage back to 100 after a break.
100 miles a week. 6 x interval miles once a week. hard 10 miler once a week. 8 x interval 800s once a week. easy 6 miles every morning. on the easy days in pm, relaxed 10-12 miler.
Monday -50am/60pm
Tuesday - 40am/long reps off short recoverypm
Weds - 60am/60pm
Thurs - 40am/tempo pm
Fri - 45am/45pm
Sat - Tempo + hills
Sun - 2hours
This will be the biggest volume week (roughly). Steady runs are very comfortable pace and Tuesday reps range form standard 10x1km to mixing it up a bit with 1ks/400s sessions. Saturday is usually about 20-25mins of tempo with hills sandwiched in between.
Get in 31:00 shape and then head to Stanford and race with a fibbed entry time.. guaranteed.
I am a low 14's/high 29's 5/10k guy. I typically do 90-100 a week with 1-2 quality sessions perb week (depending on the time of year). Spend first 4-5 weeks of each season doing just steady running. Take 2 planned breaks per year of 7-14 days (first 4-5 days no running, then 30 mins a day the second week)
Trained with a 28:06 guy...I only managed 29:35.
Example:
Mon- 12 mile training run. (Runs start ar 7 min pace and end around 6:20 pace or so).
Tue- 5-6 x mile start at 4:44 and work down to 4:35.
Wed- Easy 10-13 miles (7 min pace)
Thu- 6-10 mile tempo @ 5:10-5:25 pace depending on distance.
Fri- Easy 12-13 miles (7 min pace)
Sat- 3 mile warm-up; 2k-1600-1200-800-400-800-1200-1600-2k; 3 mile cool down.
Sun- 2 hour long run in the hills.
Another good workout my 28 min buddy would do is run 2k @ 1/2 marathon pace and 1k @ goal 10k pace. This was done on the track for the full 10k. If you can nail this you are ready for a PR!
Note: I am not a double's guy. I tried it and ended up getting hurt. I benifited from sleeping in a little more and running 12 rather then 9-10 in the afternoon. That is me though...everyone is different.
Mods, I put foward for this thread to be STICKIED.