For TCM race results, they have them all up on onlineraceresults.com and that's the official link from the marathon's website. They've had them up since right a reasonable time after the race. Why the f*** would you go to marathonguide?
For TCM race results, they have them all up on onlineraceresults.com and that's the official link from the marathon's website. They've had them up since right a reasonable time after the race. Why the f*** would you go to marathonguide?
Cobblers wrote:
I wuz there wrote:you were wrong. Admit it, instead of playing it off.
For starters qualifying for Boston is no longer a big deal so tooting your horn that you;ve done so exposes you for the pretender that you are.
Secondly, you're probably lying.
And thirdly, even if you are not, a sample size of one person hardly proves anything...except your stupidity of course for thinking that it does.
A sample size like "I've run a marathon in worse conditions" (so therefore everyone in Chicago is a wuss??)
Go way now before I embarrass you further.
There are other great races out there. Try the Fargo Marathon in May. It's run superbly and grew from 2K to 6K to 9K in just three years. The experience is great, the weather is cool and the course extremely flat.
I have a hard time blaming the race officials for what happened in Chicago. They don't control the weather and they can't force runners to drink. It's amazing how many veteran and experienced runners forget what they've learned and disregard traditional and/or conventional wisdom. I've been running less than a year and it seems a lot of people forget what they learn early on. It's great to "go for it" but be smart.
Excellent points being made to defend this wonderful sport. Sporting events the inevitable human error will always be there, how the organizers respond is a good measure. During the race they called it one fatality is too many (RIP and God Bless) combined with mulitple people needing medical attention and then you see a massive amount of people well at that point I guess the most effective decision would be to cancel the race which LaSalle did a good job of doing. We have all signed the waivers that release the race staff from all liability and if you have ever read the rest of that fine print the "race director reserves the right to cancel the race due to circumstances that may deem unecessary" or something to that effect. In the moment the organizers did what they had to do and congratulations to everyone who was fortunate enough to make it to the starting line and compete (I am injured have run chicago twice before).
There was a message on making the race a RACE again. This would be good for the safety and for the race 2:50, 3:05. I hope the IOC, and everyone involved can realize that this standard would be necessary. No you cannot control the weather, but with standards you can significantly decrease what has happened.
Based on all the media coverage. I would say the coverage of our sport is up.Time to put on another IV bag
RunningSpud wrote: I have a hard time blaming the race officials for what happened in Chicago. They don't control the weather and they can't force runners to drink.
Of course not on both counts. But maybe you shouldn't let them totally off the hook either before hearing more from folks who were there:
http://www.realbuzz.com/en-us/Forum/index?pageID=1996&topic=59561http://www.realbuzz.com/en-us/forum/index?pageID=1996&topic=59466As the facts about preparation continue to flow in, it's clear that accountability for what has happened is falling on both sides of the line.
Based on posts I have read (a couple hundred by now), I'd say the decision to cancel the race has about 80% approval, so I'd call that a success. The 20% that wanted to continue, I empathize with you (I really do), but I'm willing to bet that the vast majority are either 1. marathon newbies 2. running newbies 3. running for charities 4. traveling from afar 5. doing the only marathon they will ever attempt 6. fitness newbies in general 7. not as physically "in shape" as some of the faster runners (though no insult intended because I know how hard you have trained). Some people probably fall into more than one category. That said - here are the problems with letting the people in these categories continue:
Case 1. Despite having done 20 mile training runs or spent multiple hours training in hot weather, the second half of a real marathon and even the final 6.2 is dramatically more difficult than the first half or even your full 20 training run. This weather makes this even more true. I've been through enough marathons where people have died to be aware of the mortality impact of what I'm doing. There will be another marathon. You don't have to complete every single one, even your first.
Case 2. New runners are case 1 to even more of an extreme. They can read as much as they like, but there is something to be learned from being a runner for 10 years. Even simple things like carrying a gatorade bottles with you from the start as a spare, not wearing black shirts (I saw a ton!!!), not wearing anything more than shorts and a jersey on a hot day. Or less. These sorts of intangibles go a long way.
Case 3. Running for charities is a special and fantastic thing. The only downside is that the devotion is linked to a special desire to finish in the name of someone else. This can create a tunnel vision that while helpful and inspirational on a regular day, can cause people to ignore warning signs.
Case 4. See case number 3, and replace desire to finish in the name of a loved one with the desire to justify spending hundreds of dollars and hours spent traveling.
Case 5. See case 1. This creates a deadly fixation on finishing at all costs.
Case 6. The most troubling. While I am supportive of their new outlook on fitness, I'm worried b/c at the same time, their sense of control over their bodies as well as ability to survive on experience alone is not there yet. Personally, I am very in tune with my body and fitness level, and I can survive at least 8-10 miles at a hard pace without food or drink if I need to. I've been doing this for years and years, as opposed to several times during a 4-month window in advance of a marathon. The effort people put in isn't different, but the accumulated effort over time is.
Case 7. People in the back in many (but not all cases) are carrying a little extra. Not much in terms of versus the general population mind you, but enough to cause problems on a marathon course. More weight means more calories required to burn and more fluid expended moving that weight. I read somewhere once that an extra pound is about 2 seconds per mile. The fitter you are, the faster you can go at the same rate of energy expendiature, and your reserves of water and calories can sustain you further. This is why elite runners get so much more mileage out of their tiny bodies with the same amount of food and fluid intake as the rest of us. It's efficiency, pure and simple. Fitter people are done faster, which means fewer hours baking in the sun, leading in turn to fewer chances for problems.
I really do appreciate the effort people of all paces put in. I was in shape for a 2:45-2:50 this year before I broke my foot, and my Dad is one of the 5-6 hour guys. So I do have a range of perspective on this.
The other big point of course has been on hydration supply. We've heard the race upped supply by a couple hundred thousand cups, which was good but unfortunately not enough. You can make arguments for greedy runners (taking too much, cooling themselves with water cups instead of at cooling stations) or organizers. It's not up to the faster runners to determine how stocked the aid stations are. It's like Steve Bartman and that foul ball - looking at it from afar, you can say how could you not stay away? But closer to the action, everyone is doing the natural thing - reaching for the foul ball - or in this case, taking as much hydration as they can to finish. I can honestly say I wouldn't have thought twice, though I always prefer drinking to pouring on my head - I've never really found that to help.
My friend and I were at miles 11 and 21. We could tell by the changes in the elite pack (they were REALLY strung out and many leaders had dropped out) and even those trailing less than an hour behind that even the experienced runners
with full access to resources (compared with the back of the pack) stood no chance. That's why I camped at mile 21. Do as much good as you can before time runs out on people.
Now, if we use the more experienced runners as a baseline, like we should, then the race becomes more easy to disect. All the fluid wouldn't have made a difference. 7% of Boston dropped out in '04. I was thinking 25% on Sunday would be realistic...I was way under.
Lots of people across many message boards have speculated about possible fixes, but the execution of them isn't as easy in practice. Moving the start time up would be easy to tell runners, but means getting an army of thousands of volunteers to adjust, not to mention city personnel. Ramping up tables and fluid at aid stations means finding a thousand more volunteers on short notice. Same issue for bottlenecks at aid stations. Bringing in more ambulances means less for the non-running public.
The point that I am trying to make is that while I can definitely see where organizers could have done more, it's very hard to "turn the marathon on a dime," according to one message I read. At a marathon of this size, a simple decision such as moving the start ahead by an hour has huge ripple effects, many of which we may never know because we will never put on a race of this size.
If it were me, I would have applied a theory of construction - take the estimated cost to build it, then double it. If you aren't comfy with at least the doubled cost, don't build it, because it is likely to cost that much. In the marathon, in means whatever you think you need, be it cups, sponges, medics, water, gatorade, jack it up by a lot more than you think or what makes sense from extrapolation. You can't extrapolate demand for water, because it goes up exponentially, not linearly.
I don't want to let the race off the hook entirely, but I don't want to burn them at the stake either, because it was a perfect storm. Yes, I would have moved up the start time, tripled the hydration supply, called in more volunteers and medics, extended the aid stations, etc., but hindsight is 20/20. Bringing out the CTA cooling buses, reconfiguring the finish line layout look like good decisions now because we know what happened, and it's something I don't think I would have thought to change before the race, to be quite honest.
I think race management deserves a little detention for not thinking things through to a greater degree b/c they really did underestimate a lot of things, but expulsion isn't the answer either - these guys have done awesome work in every other marathon I've seen or run in.
Finally, a shout-out to the people of Chicago. Everyone did a great job of picking up the remaining slack and then some. Untold physical pain was prevented as well as lives saved because people stopped watching the race and played battlefield medic. Lots of people coughed up money to buy gatorade for strangers, buy ice and such. I gave a dry shirt of mine to a woman who had dropped out and was shivering. People were handing out popsicles, and the list goes on.
Is there a website to signup ? Is it a class action lawsuit ?
Pre7564 - Thanks for your insights, I agree completely!
As for a class action law suit - I wouldn't put it past the American public (which is what marathon running is now) to throw their dignity to the side and expect something for themselves. Nobody could have prepared for the weather effects to the degree they were - the directors made a great decision to prevent 6+ hour joggers/walkers to not hit the wall - people at this pace are seriously NOT prepared for a marathon, especially with the conditions presented, plain and simple. There were multiple 70+ year old finishers in the 5-6 hour range, so obviously the group that had to stop shouldn't even be out there in the first place.
One man did die, and I pray for his family and friends, but it was of his own heart condition, not anything with the marathon director, volunteers, or the weather. So, lets look at the facts: the worst weather showed up for a running race that everybody and their freakin grandma now runs (instead of experienced and well-trained runners) and 50 out of 36,000 people went to the hospital (that's 0.14%) and around 300 out of 36,000 had to be treated on the course (that's 0.83%). Everybody's crying like people were dropping like flys - just shut up, train smarter and be more prepared. Don't put your lack of responsability on somebody else and try to get money for it - typical America - unbelievable.
BeenThereDoneThat wrote:
There's a big difference between telling someone they are selfish and calling some a moron.
You simply don't get it. Use your brain and see if can tell the difference between the words.[/quote]
Well one is a noun and one is an adjective. So sorry. How about this:
You are moronic, nothing more.
(Well, that plus a hypocrite but "hypocrite" is a noun and I wouldn't want you to feel you'd been called a name or anything instead of a polite adjective like "selfish")
SVC wrote:
Website ? wrote:Is there a website to signup ? Is it a class action lawsuit ?
Yes.
http://www.idiot.com
SVC: Do you EVER add any substance???? I have read your posts. They are NOTHING but rhetoric, bull$hit and blabbering insults of others.
Do you have low self esteem that requires you to insult others, in an attempt to make yourself feel better??
I'll bet your therapist is already putting a hefty down- payment on a nice waterfront home, knowing you will provide a steady stream of income for years and years.
You are a prime example of feminist liberals that are part of the waste of mankind.
This potential lawsuit is a joke!! A JOKE! Whining wimps who want to blame others everytime they trip or fail at anything.
Man-up!!
if you've run a race up front in heat, you know how it's done, grab a few cups and douse yourself...you don't think about the back of the pack runners, we're all guilty in that department...stop blaming race organizers, they aren't in to weather forecasting, they deal in logistics...
just think wrote:
if you've run a race up front in heat, you know how it's done, grab a few cups and douse yourself...you don't think about the back of the pack runners, we're all guilty in that department...stop blaming race organizers, they aren't in to weather forecasting, they deal in logistics...
Are you suggesting that it's the responsibility of the front runners to ration their water usage? Did anyone tell them that? That seems like a logistics issue, which as you say is dealt with by the race organizers....
about 43 degress this morning in chicago at 8am. too cold, fun run organizers should of moved the run to 10am.
pvs wrote:
SVC wrote:Yes.
http://www.idiot.comSVC: Do you EVER add any substance???? I have read your posts. They are NOTHING but rhetoric, bull$hit and blabbering insults of others.
Do you have low self esteem that requires you to insult others, in an attempt to make yourself feel better??
I'll bet your therapist is already putting a hefty down- payment on a nice waterfront home, knowing you will provide a steady stream of income for years and years.
You are a prime example of feminist liberals that are part of the waste of mankind.
This potential lawsuit is a joke!! A JOKE! Whining wimps who want to blame others everytime they trip or fail at anything.
Man-up!!
Wow, I don't think I've laughed so hard in ages. Thanks! Yeah, I can see you've clearly been reading all my posts on this thread. Like the ones where I attempted to to clarify the definitions of "gross negligence", "willful negligence", etc. If that throbbing vein in your sloped forehead doesn't kill you first, you'll notice that the post of mine to which you responded was actually mocking the person who was asking about a potential class action lawsuit, which of course is ridiculous. I'm also most disconcerted to learn that I am a feminist liberal. Last time I checked, I'm a male libertarian. Lastly, I love it when someone criticizes another poster for supposed "rhetoric, bull$hit and blabbering insults" by using (you guessed it) rhetoric, bull$hit and blabbering insults (not to mention incoherent accusations). Thanks again for the nice afternoon chuckle. Sorry about the water-front home. Guess the double-wide by the sewage treatment plant will have to suffice for now.
so you change id's?
And, that's it???
That's all you got??
Hiding behind three or four id's let's you chime in and pat yourself on the back.
As your therapist has said many times :"this passive agressive behavior ic concerning me..."
99% of the time I post under SVC. Sometimes I'll post under other names just for fun. In this case, to bait Trolling Cock Master on another thread. Just forgot to change back to the usual identity.
Let me let clue you in on a little secret. This is the Internet. It isn't reality. We're not having a conversation. You're not a real person to me. After I click on "post message" I'll go back to my real life, in the real world. Get it?
I know that Sue Ellen was JR:s wife in "Dallas", but who is "Sue Chicago Marathon"?
I ran the race. This was my 5th marathon. My pr is 3:00.04. My goal going into the race was to break 3 hours. My finish time was 3:25. After the first 5k I realized this is not a pr day and to ensure I make home ok I treated the race as a 20 mile training run and just jogged the last 5 miles.
My point is I made adjustments and enjoyed my the tour of Chicago. All athletes have to make adjustments during competition. I think because I now coach I realized that there is always another day especially in an individual competition. Elites are different and team competitions are different.
What is really frightening is the Mitral valve prolapse as a cause of death. It would be nice to find more definitive evidence to support this claim.