To Race Directors:

I know we're all having fun mocking this guy, but he has a legitimate point. I believe many races have gotten too expensive. Just this past weekend, I passed on a race becuase the entry fee was $35. I'm passing on another one next month because the entry fee is $50. It's getting to be too much for me. I don't mind $20-30 for a well run 5-15K, but when it starts drifting above $30, I start looking elsewhere. I guess we all have a different breaking point, and mine is $30. I'm not paying more than that for a non-marathon race.

prize-$1000- 750-600-500-375-300-250 etc. a runner not willing to bet $30 that he will get one of those prizes does not deserve a comp.

I'm pretty sure you can not win Mega-lotto unless you buy a ticket!!!

[quote]no fan of the pathetic wrote:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have the biggest loser of the year right here on the boards this weekend.

Not only is he a zero, but he has to come back to post again and again to try to make his point.

When I posted my original message, I was looking to pick a fight and

stir up some controversy. What better place to go than Letsrun message board.

Just consider me the Michael Moore of the running community.

It's so typical of most Letsrunners (not all).

You can't discuss anything intelligently, so all you can do is criticize.

If you had a grandmother that you didn't know how to take care of,

your only solution would be to criticize her for being old.

THAT'S A LOSER.

You never disappoint. Hats off. Keep it coming!!!!

You are not Michael Moore. Michael Moore picks socially relevant issues to stir controversy. Other people benefit from Moore's controversy. You are looking for a handout because you aren't good enough to earn a comp at a major race that only offers comps to top runners. You aren't an elite runner... get over it. Few of us are. Enjoy your success for what it is, and if that's not good enough, then I highly suggest you take up a different pasttime.

yessir wrote:

[quote]:

I was looking to pick a fight and

stir up some controversy.

It's so typical of most Letsrunners (not all).

You can't discuss anything intelligently, so all you can do is criticize.

So you were looking to pick a fight, got one and now you are complaining about it?

If you want to have an intelligent discussion, then start by posting something intelligent.

You were criticized because of the inane argument you stated.

Just to differentiate from the original poster who is being mocked (and rightfully so) for asking for comps when he probably doesn't deserve them, I was commenting soley on the cost of races in and of themselves. I have never asked for, been offered, or received a comp because I'm not elite. I know it, so I don't even ask. Therefore, entering a race for me is a decision based on several factors, not the least of which is cost. Not unlike eating out or buying a new shirt.

In this light, I believe over $30 is too much for a non-marathon race and I do not pay above stated price for road races.

mzx wrote:

You're in your 40's or 50's and you can't afford a few hundred bucks a year to enter races? What are you, homeless?

Oh, yes...the ever present "you must be poor" comeback.

I guess you're not allowed to comment on the price of anything unless you're on wellfare.

okay... wrote: I believe many races have gotten too expensive.

More expensive I think is a better phrase than too expensive, because "too expensive" is relative to a person's ability to pay it. Too expensive to me is different than too expensive to Bill Gates.

Fact is things like insurance, police support, permits, timing, etc, all cost the same for a "no frills" race as they do for a "frills" race and that's where a lot of the costs are.

Around here the ante-in for a road race is about $3000. That's before shirts, awards, etc. Other towns it's more in the range of $4000-5000. Kinda tough to do those $15 races anymore.

To the few supporters.

Thank you.

To the Pizz Ants,

Mission Accomplished.

Later Dude.

i agree that certain road race fees are borderline extortionary, especially 5k's... people talk about the quality of the event from a does it look professional standpoint - what about from the what is the quality of the competition standpoint? i think rd's owe it to people paying the entry fee to assure a competitive field when the events are marketed as races

There is some merit to the original post. While competitive runners aren't the backbone of events (or the sport IMO), I find we (I consider myself part of that group loosely) are being increasingly overlooked.

I don't know where most of LR lives, but here (southeastern Illinois), it's at least an hour drive to any race. Add to that very few RD's actually know much about running and are much more focused on event management; the trend is away from the runner and toward the bottom line. It's understandable, certainly.

I've only once walked away from a race, it was a 5k held for cancer research. The course started in the parking lot of a community college and deposited onto a two-lane township road which had no shoulder and was heavily cambered. The roads were not closed, the sun (being morning) was in the face of drivers facing runners, traffic was not managed and it was just an accident waiting to happen. No way I was going to be two minutes in front of that group.

The cost of races isn't so much toward how much it cost to hold the event any longer either. It's how much can the consumer stomach. $25 for a 5k is ridiculous, but try running a Race for the Cure for anything less. Again, I don't mind pony-ing up for the good causes, but other RDs see this and assume their "10k to support the Local Community College Basketball Team" is also worth $25-35. It's bogus.

Competition isn't what it used to be either. I've twice run half marathons this year where I was over 10 minutes in front of the second place finisher. This is after shutting down and jogging in the last 5k.

So, yeah, it would be nice given as one RD put above (that competitive runners don't effect their bottom line) that legitimate front runners get comp'd entry. But in the same vein, it's somewhat arrogant to expect it is part of the planning of their event.

Go ask a race director to see their line item budget for a 5k? You'll find that most of the time, they don't make money, unless there is corporate sponsorship $$s.

Race brochures - put out a crappy 1-pager and you've just told everyone you're putting on a cheapo race. now you're looking at a glossy colored application.

Mailing list - gotta buy one of these to send out that glossy colored application.

City permits and cops- (required to get permits in many cities) have tripled in my area in just the past 4 years.

Shirts - races are now expected to provide not only shirts-but high tech shirts with screening.. at the least, these cost around $9.00.

Registration and timing - if you want chip timing, you're going to pay over $2k for this. if you don't want chip timing, you better have alot of time on your hand to find enough people to help you process the registration forms and set up a finish line.

Timing Equipment - if you don't hire a timing company, you'd better have a stash of clocks and timers on hand to use. these don't come cheap.

Other equipment- you also better have alot of cones and tables in your garage if you don't hire this out. also, how are you going to transport all this stuff to your race site - gotta big truck?

Awards and refreshments- hope to get these donated but if you don't have the time to beat the pavement, you're buying these.

If you have enough goodies advertised, have a nice brochure, make sure those applcations get into the enought hands, you might attract enough runners so that you cover your costs. If you only cater to the fast guys and provide $4.00 cotton t-shirts, you're going to eat it in the shorts.

It's not the same as it was 30 years ago. Races have had to become events because it's the only way to recoup the costs of putting them on. That is the reality of road racing.

I've had the thought that it would be nice to receive something other than a cotton t-shirt for each race. I've got more than I can wear or use as rags. And I do end up donating most of them in the end. The exception to this thought is my recent experience of receiving a tech-material shirt at a race or two. I have enjoyed those.

What if directors bought and gave $5 gift certificates to a local or on-line running store. If more than one race director did this, I might be able to accmulate $25 or $30 at the end of summer that I could apply toward a pair of shoes or other gear.

In terms of awards, I've earned money or merchandise at few local races over time - instead of a plaque or medal. But managing this becomes tricky when it comes to student-athletes.

RDd wrote:

Timing Equipment - if you don't hire a timing company, you'd better have a stash of clocks and timers on hand to use. these don't come cheap.

I ran a half marathon two weeks ago. I got to the five mile mark and asked for a time split as I was approaching the mile marker. The guy pulled out his cell phone and read off the time on his display.

I got the same exact response at mile 10. I paid $30 for that?

You could respond I should have worn a watch and you'd be right, but still...

i understand nothing is cheap nowadays

i still don't think it's too much to ask for a reasonably competitive field when the event is marketed as a race, not a charity event

Keith Stone wrote:

okay... wrote: I believe many races have gotten too expensive.

More expensive I think is a better phrase than too expensive, because "too expensive" is relative to a person's ability to pay it.

You're wrong on this point...ability and WILLINGNESS to pay. Ability alone doesn't cover it. Am I ABLE to pay $50 for a fast food lunch? Yes. Am I WILLING to pay $50 for one? No way. Same thing with $35 5ks.

Carry on.

dotato wrote:

RDd wrote:

Timing Equipment - if you don't hire a timing company, you'd better have a stash of clocks and timers on hand to use. these don't come cheap.

I ran a half marathon two weeks ago. I got to the five mile mark and asked for a time split as I was approaching the mile marker. The guy pulled out his cell phone and read off the time on his display.

I got the same exact response at mile 10. I paid $30 for that?

You could respond I should have worn a watch and you'd be right, but still...

to make sure you have an accurate split caller, the person has to be someone who understands the imporatance of the task. most of the people who are recruited to work these races are from the beneficiary receiveing the money and have no clue as to what times mean to people. you aren't paying for split callers.

i was watching a marathon where a bunch of guys were trying for an A qualifier. i walked over to the 20 miler markers sign and noticed that it was in the wrong place(the miler markers for this race are clearly painted on the road). i told the woman calling splits there that she needed to move the sign and her response was "this is close enough". it was about 150 yards off!

RDd wrote:

you aren't paying for split callers.

I'm curious, what do you think road racers ARE paying for then? It wasn't a closed course. The road side refreshments were water. I didn't get a t-shirt because they "ran out".

Seriously, I think it depends upon locale. Runners in the Carlsbad 5000 get a totally different race experience than runners in the Evansville Race for the Cure 5k or Cowpatty Flop 5k, yet, last time I checked Carlsbad was $30. It paid $30 for a few 5ks this year ONLY because I could recoup the entry with the $30 in prize money.

The assumption here seems to be $20 for a 5k gets you the same product regardless of where you're at or who is directing the race, that that's just not true.

dotato wrote:

I'm curious, what do you think road racers ARE paying for then?

Timing, shirts, permits, post-race refreshments, registration forms, cops, awards etc.

Alot of times, the city doesn't allow you to close the courses completely but they charge you for even wanting to impede traffic. they require rolling closures with cops so you don't get killed while crossing an intersection. but, none of those people out there with flags are paid employees (except for the cops).

I don't disagree that there is tons of variation on what you get for your entry fee. much of the time, what you get for your money depends on the amount of time the RD spends knocking on doors getting sponsors and stuff donated. it also helps to have serious runners involved in the planning in addition to back of the packers.

my biggest peeve with racing is a course that doesn't have accurate mile markers. IMHO, if the course isn't accurate, i might as well do a training run. it doesn't cost dollars to mark a course accurately but it costs time. i shop around and don't enter a race unless the known parties involved have a reuptation of having accurately marked courses.

spend your racing dollars wisely.