Falmouth Road Race

A few questions about judgment and timing.

How many runners would like to finish a race and immediately receive a lecture instead of congratulations?

How do you think Joan would like it? How would Joan feel about that person?

Was it a coincidence that Joan's lecture is immediately after being beaten? Why didn't she express her concern after Friehoffer's?

I'm Joan sure Joan is a real nice person, but under the circumstances she wasn't a very sensitve mom, coach or runner.

I can't understand the difference between this girl running quite often as a 12-year-old and a Kenyan boy or girl running every day back and forth to school 6 miles one way and then doing hard manual labor much of the rest of the time. It seems everyone on this board agrees on on thing and it is that this Kenyan style of life (training) is what prepares them so well for competition later in life. Then why is it such a catastrophe when an American girl (or boy) runs quite a bit, and quite well, when she is young?

If this girl enjoys running, and running races, why shouldn't she? How many Kenyans are running to school purely for the "fun of it?" That doesn't seem to deter them from running insanely well when they are of college age and beyond. Did they shoot their wads too early? Should this girl quit running and play other sports so that she can "save" her desire for running for later in life or retard her inevitable burnout (because of course it is inevitable)? Or is it that she races too often and the exercise scientists of the board say she should be doing only basework and LSD-type running (yes that's much more fun than running fast!, and less time consuming as well!)?

I'm positive JBS has experienced more in running than I have, and she is certainly in position to offer sound advice, but give me a break: telling a girl following a great race to go play other sports? It would seem that would be more detrimental than anything - a world champion telling a young girl first hand to back off or you're jeopardizing your career. She's 12! She's having fun! Would it make everyone feel better if she ran 20 minutes slower? She's just met a woman who was in the top of her sport and that's the advice she gets! How about "great job!"

I don't want to turn this into did JBS do the right thing? It would be nice if a few people could comment on why running so much at a young age in America is a deathtrap for potential college and international superstars (it seems she's been dubbed that) while Kenyan success is built upon huge amounts of running in childhood.

Since we weren't there to witness the conversation, I would say give Joan the benefit of the doubt based on the character she has shown in the past. All we have to go on is somebody's recollection of a conversation as it was posted on an internet chat room. It's hard to know the exact context, tone of voice, etc. I just find it highly doubtful that Joan Samuelson would launch into a spiteful tirade at a kid immediately after a race.

There's a difference between running a lot and racing a lot. Even if you take the stereotype as applying to every Kenyan school child, those children are still playing soccer, or cricket, or what have you for fun. Maybe a track meet or two in season, but I'd doubt that as applying to the majority. The only timing on their runs to or from school is getting to class on time, not what their 5 km split was.

So, I think Joan's advice was reasonable. I also think that her only chance to talk to this girl was right there, after the race, and it's a little hard to put nonchalance and good manners into a conversation immediately after a hard race. So she took the time she had.

Kids who do that kind of intensity DO burn out. Kenyans just like anyone else. How many children in Kenya DON'T end up running professionally?

Mary Decker Slaney may have had a strong career past puberty. But she had at least 2 surgeries for compartment syndrome (not due to genetics, by the way). She went to 2 or three colleges, and I don't know if she ever finished. It would be interesting to hear what she'd do if her child was a track prodigy.

Do you think Kenyan youth just stroll around the trail to become world class? They have a system that identifies talanted youth at an early age. They have centralized training centrals with very intense, sophisticated training regimins - only the strong survive. Not every single Kenyan becomes a world champion. Running is a revered national sport.

Let's see in American half the children in the country are obese. Everyone wants there kids to great without too much work - well actually no work would be better. A favorite pastime is giving expert advise (slamming) and dumping on hard working youth while eating cheese dooodles.

I don't know why the Kenyans are better. Really how do they do it?

Kenyan Power wrote:

Do you think Kenyan youth just stroll around the trail to become world class? They have a system that identifies talanted youth at an early age. They have centralized training centrals with very intense, sophisticated training regimins - only the strong survive. Not every single Kenyan becomes a world champion. Running is a revered national sport.

Let's see in American half the children in the country are obese. Everyone wants there kids to great without too much work - well actually no work would be better. A favorite pastime is giving expert advise (slamming) and dumping on hard working youth while eating cheese dooodles.

I don't know why the Kenyans are better. Really how do they do it?

Gee, I don't know, let's ask all those kids that didn't make it and go back to a life of drudgery. Better yet, the American kids who didn't become professional runners but got college degrees and accomplished something well into their middle years can take a vacation over there and ask.

Or, to be more fair, we can have workshops where all the American ghetto children who didn't become professional athletes meet all the Kenyan children who are working on their family farms.

Shame on Joan Benoit (who beat Kenyan women, among others, in the Olympics, but didn't race every weekend starting at the age of 6) from trying to keep a little girl from hurting herself early in life!

My god Joan has saved the child! Alluyah praise Joan. Praise field hockey! And praise you Idealist for you inspirational support and kind words.

make up your minds:

Just a couple of quick responses to your post: first off, the "Kenyan kids running to school" thing is probably widely exaggerated. I'm sure there are plenty of cases of kids who did have to run 6 miles to and from school, but from what I've read, that's not the norm. I'm not really in a position to estimate what is a typical distance travelled to/from school by a Kenyan schoolkid, but I doubt running 2 6-milers a day is that common. I also doubt many Kenyan kids have run 400 races by the age of 12, and the amount of races run by Brianna is one of the primary objections people have to her running routine.

Secondly, another concern about Brianna is that she is a girl, and the evidence seems to be that excessive training in pre-teens is especially harmful to girls. Somebody posted a good article about that on one of the previous discussions of this topic. Basically, running a lot at her age will likely leave her more prone to low bone density and various other medical problems.

A third point is that in my opinion, you have to look at the statistics surrounding what Brianna is doing. She's talented, sure, but there have been plenty of child phenom's before her. Time after time, kids seemingly headed for stardom get derailed by injury and burnout. I'm sure most of those kids would have claimed they loved what they were doing, and I'm sure their parents would say they were being careful and sensible with their training, but the same thing always happens. And so far, it's hard to find anything that's going to make Brianna's case any different. Unfortunately, debating what she should do is probably a moot point, because I doubt anything is going to stop her and her dad from continuing on in the same way.

Joan of Arc wrote:

My god Joan has saved the child! Alluyah praise Joan. Praise field hockey! And praise you Idealist for you inspirational support and kind words.

I knew you'd come around...

Injury is a problem. Gotta wonder how much is not just racing on roads, but training on them, too. All that extra pounding on young bones?

But let?s talk burnout. Zillions of kids play soccer up until age 12 or 13. After that, many just pursue other things. Burnout, or the natural course of things? Virtually all of the ones who continue into high school give it up after high school. Burnout, or moving on? Same with baseball, going back generations. Why are people under the impression that running young involves some unique form of overdoing, called ?burnout??

A number of the kids I?ve seen that had big success early and moved on were subject to a different factor. With some talent and training, they cleaned up over their peers. Trouble is, the peer group was small. By the time high school came around, the talent pool was bigger, and featured others with equal or better talent. What?s the motivation for the former youth star to continue, when they were Junior Olympic national champ at 10 or 12, and now no longer even the best in their town?

Bill Rodgers beat her by 20 seconds...i doubt he would have been as classless as Joan if he lost to her. If Joan wanted to make a difference in this girls runnign career, putting the way she goes about her running down right after the race is not hte way to do it...and clearly was because she lost and out of frustration.

This sure is a lot of criticism and judgement of parties in a conversation that none of you (besides Smitty) witnessed or heard about, except second hand. None of you has a clue what happened there.

Joan Benoit has shown a lifetime of class. She's earned a little bit better than this.

If the quote is indeed accurate and complete, well I think the words "I'll do anything I can to help you" are enough for me.

mrr82 wrote:

Bill Rodgers beat her by 20 seconds...i doubt he would have been as classless as Joan if he lost to her.

Winning? Losing? Neither of these things have anything to do with the young athlete in question and the discussion with Joan Samuelson - if you read my earlier post you would know that.

The fact is that Joanie and Bill talked en route to where the conversation with Briana took place, and - from what I was told - Bill Rogers was at least as concerned about Briana as Joan, but they thought that any advice might come better from her - as a mom, a woman, and as role model - than it would from him.

I would bet my mortgage that both Bill and Joan want to see the sport thrive and prosper - and that goes for the young athlete in question, and other succesful young athletes. They just want to see her enjoy the sport as much as they do, both still enjoying competing even though their days of Gold Medals and Boston Marathon wins are long gone.

When you have acheieved as much athletically as these two, you know that there is more to this sport than simply "winning and losing". Any *great* athlete will experience both in the course of a career, and handle them with grace.

Furthermore, in any discussion of classy actions by athletes, I'm afraid that the name Mike Randall doesn't come up nearly as often as that of either Joan Benoit Samuelson or Bill Rodgers.

All the best,

G.

11 or 12 years old (I stand corrected) the kid needs an intervention and Joanie is the right person to do it (though I bet she listens less because her parents push her, despite what they say- that was a creepy article- and, as I said earlier, because she whooped Joanie)

(kids these days).

Joanie clearly did the right thing because she cares and knows more about this sport than all us .

But still... could you imagine winning Olympic Gold and having this little munchkin out kick you? I don't believe for a minute this wouldn't bother her or Boston Billy just a little bit and cause them to ponder what else they could do with there free time.

As I said before, I never won Olympic Gold, I love this sport, but when a naked guy beat me at Bay to Breakers and a guy in a Banana Suit beat me at a Jamba Juice 5Km, its a little distrubing...

It seems to me Briana's screwed. These discussions pop whenever she runs well. But if she runs slower she will be a burnout. If she runs faster she will be a burnout. I'm betting umptinemillion to one the next time she runs well, we'll have the same Ground Hog Day the moive discussion.

The falmouth race is 7 miles correct? So she ran 6:00 pace for 7 miles on what is considered a hilly course. Thats nothing short of ridiculous. The way her father treats her is no different. I live in the neighboring town of Brianna and have watched her racing since she was 7 and broke the national record for 5 miles for youths (12-under) at sheehan a few years back. I believe she was 9 at the time. Her father used to run with her during the races and turn back and talk to her though the whole thing. "come on hunny, just a little further.." could be heard literally dozens of times during the race. I cant be certain he still does this. She trains at Holmdel on a daily basis, does workouts, tempo runs ect. Its sickening. She looks like a mini suzy favor hamilton. Decked out nike gear, sunglasses, everyhting. Its sickening. Her sister was the same way and look what happened to her. People have been talking about how awful what he has done to his daughters is for years and years now. Sure, maybe she might win a race and be an elite runner. That would be great for US distance running. But is this something she wants, or he wants? I tend to think at the early stages, and even now, its both. But if history has taught us nothing else, my friends, that will change all too soon. So onto my point. A child running for exercise is a great thing in todays ever rotund world. But racing 400 times in 6 years..? I have been running for 7 years now and have not raced that much. And keep in mind I'm a victim of the horrid NCAA system which overraces and blah blah! The Keyans running to school and a decent pace is one thing, racing once every 6.38 days is another.

Sounds like her success, not her failure is eating you alive. Sounds like you would be happier if she failed than if she succeeded. Must have crushed you a few times, huh?

Catch 22 wrote:

It seems to me Briana's screwed. These discussions pop whenever she runs well. But if she runs slower she will be a burnout. If she runs faster she will be a burnout. I'm betting umptinemillion to one the next time she runs well, we'll have the same Ground Hog Day the moive discussion.

You completely missed the point. It's not that she races fast or slow, it's that she races too much.

will tell. until then, my sentiments are thus: she's a child damnit. How much pressure must she be under, should she be under? You want a savior, must it be a child? I think her dad needs psychiatric help. And poor little one is destined for it herself. Too bad. I'll tell you this...no one knows better than me.