San Francisco Plastic Bag Ban

you have to be a troll to say this crap. you just cannot be that stupid.

I disagree. Since we happen to live in AN environment, that makes it OUR environment. The use of the word OUR implies a mutual experience which we all share. Perhaps the semantics are beyond your grasp.

Since we all share this environment, your actions in the environment affect my experience just like mine affect yours.

I begin to get irritated when I see self-proclaimed political environmentalists declaring themselves to be experts on a scientific field and telling the rest of the world how to behave while they consume 100x as much as the average American (bearing in mind that the average American is a gross overconsumer).

Liberals are more likely to consume less...I'd love to see the figures.

Since when does not eating meat make a person "environmental"? Last time I read my Zoology textbook I recall homo sapiens being classified as omnivorous.

Maybe I'm the one with the semantics problem, because it seems like "environmentalist" now means a person who lives on planet earth but somehow magically does not use anything from the planet other than a few plants. My grandfather was a true environmentalist by my definition (perhaps I should use the word "naturalist" since the way he lived was natural unlike the bizarre pseudo-religion Greenpeace created). He tended a small farm, hunted his own food, trapped animals and made his own clothes, cut trees for firewood, and used a horse or a horse-drawn cart to get around. He was capable of living in the woods with a small bag of tools indefinitely. He consumed nothing he did not get from the earth with his own hands. And he was about as conservative as a man could be.

If you really want to cut down on wastefulness at the grocery store, first you could start by educating people that they don't need to eat so much. Rather than changing the bags from paper to plastic and now on to something else, why not just get rid of the bags altogether? Nobody walks to the grocery store anymore, so why not put the groceries back in the cart at checkout, then unload them into your trunk, then when you get home you could carry the stuff in individually or use some bag that you have at home?

See, this is why I think this law is dumb, there is no reduction in consumption, you're just changing the type of bag used. The same enormous number of bags are going to be wasted. And then some liberal politician is going to claim how they did so much for the environment...yeah, right...

When I shop at Whole Foods or an Organic Foods Shop and the bagger asks me for paper or plastic, should I feel guilty when I ask for plastic? Cause the bagger and cashier always gives me this judgemental look. So I always ask for plastic.

Bags? Why would anyone even need to use bags. My grocery store puts out the cardboard boxes that the bulk food came in. I fill them up with my groceries and take the boxes to the recycle center when I am done using them.

We need the paper and plastic bags for our kitchen scraps around the house.

Hey, just a question. Will a San Fransicko store owner be arrested for selling Glad bags, either the tall kitchen white deals, ore the huge black trash bags in his store?

Well I think the other guy thought it would just be easier to insult me than to actually try to respond to the points I raised.

It's true - whether it is "our" environment or "no one's" environment really is a semantic issue. My interpretation of "our environment" is "that which surrounds us", but other people have been using it in a possessive sense, leading to all manner of emotional, senseless arguments. For the sake of discussion it would be most expedient to avoid labeling it altogether.

How about saying that the environment is a resource that needs to last humanity as long as it is incapable of settling elsewhere? Think about it that way and our responsibility to protect it comes clear. But obviously some people don't care about that. That's why other people push legislation through to control environmental destruction. How does this not make sense?

Banning plastic bags isn't a huge step, but it's something. I agree - better not to use any at all (since I usually bike everywhere I have to fit everything in my backpack).

By the way, becoming a vegetarian is probably the best thing a person can do for the environment. This is not controversial - the lower you consume on the food chain, the less byproduct (e.g. shit), the less water consumption (and contamination), the less energy. The numbers are absolutely staggering if you work it out. The production of one pound of vegetables consumes about 2% of the resources of one pound of beef.

The fact that liberals consume less has to do with a number of side correlations: mainly, all those people who live in cities and don't own cars? They split at least 80-20 for Democrats. Think about the cities where lots of people ride their bikes to work - they are liberal bastions like Boston, Minneapolis, Portland, San Francisco, etc. Or try taking a poll on any subway or bus. Do you honestly think that you'd get an even split? Vegetarians probably have even higher numbers - I've never met a conservative vegetarian, but I know plenty of liberal vegetarians. People living in cities (very liberal) also have smaller residences and smaller lots, as a matter of economics. All those McMansions in the suburbs (much more conservative) have enormous heating bills and huge lots with big lawns that get watered and fertilized.

Of course there are plenty of personal anecdotes to the contrary. I'm sure your grandfather was a fine man. And I won't support Edwards or Gore unless I have to.

And again - just because you personally don't feel compelled to steal, does that mean that we don't need laws against theft?

Is anyone going to take the time to read the article posted by Pamela Anderson's Left Nipple?

Plastic isn't worse for the environment you fukking idiots.

you talk a lot and say very little.

the environment is a public good. thus it needs to be protected because if left to the individuals each person will undervalue and get the free ride from their neighbor.

it's a basic idea.

Why are you complaining about a country you don't even live in? Go volunteer in Ukraine

But doing smack on the street and shoplifting is perfectly legal. Makes sense.

Hi,

The San Francisco Plastic Bag Ban is a regulation prohibiting single-use plastic bags in retail establishments within the city, aimed at reducing plastic waste and promoting environmental sustainability.

Cloth bags are the way to go and much stronger, more convenient, and a handful of them will go for five, ten, fifteen years of groceries.