IAAF Officials didn't know Mombasa was hot when they awarded the World Champs to Kenya

Funny stuff malmo.

In case you're checking this thread, and because I know you're a stats hound and we were talking about how different size/weight runners would fare in the heat/humidity, have you by chance looked at who ran best/worst, DNF'd/finished? Can you tell us if there was a preferred body type for racing in those crazy conditions?

In the pictures, it looks like everyone was suffering. Did the small guys, on average, survive better than the bigger guys?

RM wrote:

Post of the year right here.

Easily. I would argue it has to be in contention for best post in the history of Letsrun.

More kudos for Malmo.

You know mcgato, altho I'm w/jtupper on questions like you pose: our goal is to get the best US runners to the meet, we certainly compromised that focus w/the Trials being in cool weather at altitude. Somebody pointed out correctly (malmo?), we've never had our 'best' at the WC meet. We've had some very good teams at WC in the past but many of our best didn't contest the Trials. Now, we've moved into an era where runners have more options to pick from as pros.

I don't know who else bid for the '07 US WC Trials. We could not have had more contrasting venues for America's best to race cross this winter in Boulder & Mombasa. I suspect USATF officials want to avoid appearances of favoritism by not soliciting 'optimal' Trials sites but, man, if this year isn't fuel for change, I can't imagine.

I'll stick w/my original position about Mombasa being awarded the Champs: they were unnecessarily awful, abysmal & absurd competitive conditions on the World's biggest stage.

Tom Bradycardia wrote:

(and funny post by Malmo, but geez.....he seems a little obsessed with the issue of the race having been run in extreme conditions {how many threads has he started about it?} . For those that don't like running in extreme conditions, there is always indoor track, right?! )

Probably because he basically said the meet would be a failure and a terrorist attack would happen, and though while it was hot, it's undeniable that the meet was a tremendous success. Some people simply can't admit when they're wrong.

Anyway, I always thought malmo was a tough as nails guy and I coulda swore I've seen him write on many threads when people bitch about heat, basically "everyone has to deal with it -- get over it". I'd look it up, but the search engine on this board is lousy.

Joggernot wrote:

That was the greatest African Continental Championships ever held, hands down.

I agree that it was too hot... they could have held it in many Kenyan towns at higher elevation where the weather would have been nice. Of course, then they'd face a lot of complaining about the elevation itself.

As far as calling it an "African Continental Championship" beacuse of the results... perhaps you have not noticed, but Africans dominate the top 50 at every world cross, wherever it is held, regardless of the weather. If it had been held in Norway, the Kenyans would still have dominated, and they probably would not have complained about the weather.

On a related note, Kenenisa Bekele earned my respect through his comments after that race He already HAD a lot of respect for his running and winning, but he proved he can be graceful in the unfamiliar role of not winning. He admitted that the heat had him rattled and acknowledged that Tadesse ran so hard under the conditions that he just couldn't do it. I can't imagine what state a person as tough as Bekele could get himself into, running in that heat, but I suspect it would feel a lot like dying.

HRE wrote:

Did you get an answer? Do you think Helmut was around in the early 60s when Mexico City got the Olympics and some official said that the altitude would not be a factor?

The lobbying factor for Mexico City came "indirectly" from the US State Department looking to stabilize a country (Mexico) that was heading down the slippery slope of socialism. What other country, before or after, that was so disadvantaged economically has staged the Olympics? Do you really think Mexico financed (or could finance) the Olympics by themselves? No, it was a convenient way for the US State Department to funnel/launder $$$ to the right-wing government and their military. Just read the book The Games by Hugh McIlvaney (it's all there).

HRE, you know I am right.

desert rodent wrote:

The lobbying factor for Mexico City came "indirectly" from the US State Department looking to stabilize a country (Mexico) that was heading down the slippery slope of socialism. What other country, before or after, that was so disadvantaged economically has staged the Olympics? Do you really think Mexico financed (or could finance) the Olympics by themselves? No, it was a convenient way for the US State Department to funnel/launder $$$ to the right-wing government and their military. Just read the book The Games by Hugh McIlvaney (it's all there).

HRE, you know I am right.

Sure you are rodent. Hugh Mcilvanney never wrote a book titled "The Games" or anything like that.

What did they make that fantastic running movie, starring Ryan O'neal, out of then....thin air???? Circa 7,000 feet thin air.

Malmo,

Have you considered that perhaps the IAAF got exactly what they wanted?

There have been rumors going around for at least a comple of years that the IAAF wants to deemphasize World Cross or perhaps eliminate it entirely. If true, the case that would be made is that World Cross has become primarily an African regional event, Europeans and also North Amreicans have become disinterested and mostly can't compete, most nations don't even send full teams, and thus the event no longer deserves the status of a World Championship.

If this is what the IAAF is really up to, eliminating the short race was a first step as it gave the Africans an even greater advantage overall, and Mombasa could not have been better.

desert rodent wrote:

What did they make that fantastic running movie, starring Ryan O'neal, out of then....thin air???? Circa 7,000 feet thin air.

Perhaps the thin air in your head?

The Games, was a B-movie based on the Hugh Atkinson novel of the same name. Need I explain to you what the word FICTION means?

Diegel was speaking for himself, as he often does, so don't pay him much mind. Of course everyone knew it was going to be hot.

Among elite runners it is hard to tell which body is best. Normally you would say those with the greatest surface area would have the best chance of dissipating heat, but that large surface area also is a bigger target for radiation from the sun. Some bodies just deal better than others. I tested 2 runners from Phoenix (both used to the heat), who weighed the same and ran within 1 minute of the same time for a 25k race. In that race, one guy lost a total of 5 kilograms and replaced 1 for a net loss of 4kilos (8.8 pounds). The other guy also drank 1 liter and lost a total of 2.5kilos (net loss 1.5kilos). I'd say that is a major difference in how two very similar people react to the heat (it was 15% humid and 82 degrees that day)

jtupper wrote:

Among elite runners it is hard to tell which body is best. Normally you would say those with the greatest surface area would have the best chance of dissipating heat, but that large surface area also is a bigger target for radiation from the sun.

Is it greatest surface area or greatest surface area relative to body mass?

As if we needed further evidence holding the WC meet in Mombasa was a very bad idea: http://www.eastandard.net/hm_news/news_s.php?articleid=1143966539 .

There comes a point where the conditions pick the winners...not the runners themselves. If you run straight uphill for 7.6 miles will the best runners win or the best hill runners win? If you run a race in 100 degree heat will the best runners win or those who naturally dissipate heat quicker?

Alan

Yes, but you don't hear the Kenyans complaining about having to run all their track meets in European climates instead of African climates that probably favor them. Besides, the people up front in Mombasa were the same ones that run up front everywhere.

yeah, well the IOC said the altitude at Mexico City in '68 wouldn't have an affect on performances

(lol)

Sockalexis wrote:

yeah, well the IOC said the altitude at Mexico City in '68 wouldn't have an affect on performances

When did they say that?

sc42 wrote:

Yes, but you don't hear the Kenyans complaining about having to run all their track meets in European climates instead of African climates that probably favor them. Besides, the people up front in Mombasa were the same ones that run up front everywhere.

Why would they complain about running in track meets in climates that benefit them?