Are today's colleges over-stepping their boundaries?

example 1 i think they might be in the right of the university to protect its underage students, however since they have no proof that it was at this party (i'm assuming they have no proof), they really should just give the guys a warning, maybe put on probation at most.

example 2 is ridiculous for 2 reason, first the school has no right to say anything about someone drinking champagne on new years eve. (how can you prove that they were not with the parents of the underage student) and the second reason is that the student should take down the picture right away, regardless of whether the school has the right to do it, that is just a stupid argument if they choose to not comply

example 3 is, in my opinion obvious. the school had to suspend the students when facing that kind of criminal action that is so highly publicized, now obviously it was not handled in the best way, and they should have been re-instated the second, the charges were dropped, or it became clear the stripper was a lying b****, but i believe the school has every right to suspend those students for the duration of what they believed was an obvious rape case.

I agree with you. As long as the students are 18, they should not have to be babysat.

While this example is a little different, the school where I TA has a policy where lower-level courses have to take attendance in case parents call and want to know the reason their kid did poorly. That should be the kid's job to tell their parent, colleges should not have to be held accountable for such things.

The result of this is that kids are dependent on their parents and do not learn personal accountability, then bad things happen. Freshmen who live in dorms could be subject to a little more scrutiny, but anything off campus should be investigated at the police's discretion, not by school administrators with an agenda.

kartelite wrote:

While this example is a little different, the school where I TA has a policy where lower-level courses have to take attendance in case parents call and want to know the reason their kid did poorly. That should be the kid's job to tell their parent, colleges should not have to be held accountable for such things.

If your school is in the US, you should become familiar with the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974 (FERPA) -- you cannot give any third party (including the parents) any information about the student's academics, even if they are paying the tuition, without the student's written permission. (The law says that parents of tax dependents "may" see the records; the interpretation of three universities I have taught at is, "we don't know who is a tax dependent, so we don't show anything without the student's written consent"). There are exceptions for drug and alcohol notifications to parents.

So under ferpa...am I allowed to turn in grades to the US Track Coaches Association for Academic All American honors?

That's interesting. I just looked up the school's policy online, and it doesn't say anything about releasing information to third parties, though I have heard from a number of sources that the parents are the reason. The most likely case is a while ago a some parents complained about their kid's failing grade, the instructor said the kid never showed up, but the kid contested this fact so they decided to start keeping records.

"For example, school officials with a legitimate educational interest may inspect a student’s records regardless of consent."

I dunno how much leeway this gives, but if a parent called and said their child was a dependent and they wanted to know the reason for failing, an administrator may be able to request attendance information from the instructor.

c stacks wrote:

Or look at the Duke lacrosse players... their team is suspended and they are kicked to the curb by the university and without any say in the matter and they are paraded around in front of the country as a bunch of rapists. And when it is all said and done and they are innocent, all they get is a page 3 "I'm sorry."

I agree. The same thing happened at La Salle University with the basketball team. The team, a local powerhouse over the years...had fallen on tough times. The Rape scandal of 2003 involved a girl counselor at a basketball camp that drank too much and was a little loose to begin with.

Long Story short, the top scorer, a great defender, and two coaches were out. One of the coaches, who I know personally, attests that he knew NOTHING of what happened. The university immediately suspended everyone involved (scratch the AD, who runs the school).

Two years later, and the kids are innocent. The "victim" gets off scot-free and doesn't want to testify. Two coaches lost reputation and NCAA positions and two kids who were just trying to get some had to leave school. (Side note, one of the kids, Gary Neal, is like 5th in the nation in scoring).

The school apparently had an open investigation, but the students never heard of that again. No apology. Nothing. But then again, its a catholic school.

keith trucker wrote:

So under ferpa...am I allowed to turn in grades to the US Track Coaches Association for Academic All American honors?

you better watch out, some prissy pants could sue the socks off ya'!

I totally agree with you. Once you are 18 or whatever age the state law dictates, your parents should be left out of it. And if you do something off campus and unrelated to school, the school should not be directly informed.

But it's not just schools. I haven't really thought about where the line should be drawn but employers can fire workers for pretty much anything. If they don't like what you do in your personal life, they can fire you. It makes a certain amount of sense but I think the line has to be drawn at a different point than it currently is.

I guess a school is treated like an employer as far as the law goes. So they can exercise way too much control over you.

Finally, in America, let's presume someone innocent until proven guilty. And let's allow someone to fairly defend themselves. What's with this judge, jury and executioner attitude that schools seem to have?

If you think today's colleges aren't liberal enough you might be liberal.

Their crackdown on drinking is another example of the pussification of our country, which was brought about by liberals like you. The chickens are comming home to roost.

NY Runner you must not have not been in college recently

yeah, he can't spell coming

NY Runner went to "standford." he's way smarter than us.

Although I'm not saying that the student(s) should be suspended/expelled from school, the fact remains that drinking before the age of 21 is illegal. It's hard to get around this. The schools can do what they want - and if a law is broken, it gives them even more cover.

Duke players have not had their lives ruined...there has been enough media coverage to document the numerous holes in the accuser's story where they are now viewed as the victims who have been falsely accused of a crime...

They will probably write a book after the ordeal and reap ahuge royalty fee with they probably deserve if they are innocent anyway

I agree with whoever it was that said that the suspension of the suspects in the Duke lacross case was the obvious choice.

Those guys are back in school now and the team is playing again.

There is no way that the school could have handled the situation perfectly because there was no course of action that would have fully respected the gravity of the allegations while at the same time fully respecting the rights of the accused.

The school took, in my view, an admirable middle ground. They suspended the guys and then brought them back when charges were dropped, they suspended the playing of lacrosse and then brought it back the next year.

As for colleges and drinking, I think it's up to the students to know ahead of time what the colleges policies are. If a school is intolerant of drinking they'll probably tell you that ahead of time or you'll probably be able to figure it out just by knowing whether it's a religious school or by talking to someone at the school. If you know the rules ahead of time, or should know them, you have nothing to complain about.

Glad I'm not a Student Today wrote:

I guess a school is treated like an employer as far as the law goes. So they can exercise way too much control over you.

Finally, in America, let's presume someone innocent until proven guilty. And let's allow someone to fairly defend themselves. What's with this judge, jury and executioner attitude that schools seem to have?

I'm really sorry that it seems oppressive that schools and employers can refuse to do business with people on arbitrary grounds.

However, the solution is NOT for the government to start legislating. As the owner of a business, I should not have to "prove anyone guilty" in order to can them. It is MY company and I should have the right to run it as I see fit. If I don't like the grumpy way you greet customers, the way that your TV or music offends older customers, or the way that the register always seems 10-15 bucks short when you work the late shift, I should be able to fire your ass without having to "prove" anything...

If you don't like it, go somewhere else.

Wrong coast, more elite school.

chuck d wrote:

NY Runner went to "standford." he's way smarter than us.

NY runner wrote:

Wrong coast, more elite school.

chuck d wrote:

NY Runner went to "standford." he's way smarter than us.

Not more elite, just more elitist.

Yeah but there is a significant difference between firing an employee for behavior that impacts the business and during business hours and firing an employee because you heard that he liked to throw parties.

And it isn't a problem isolated to select, alcohol-intolerant campuses--I've been associated now with two schools of completely different size and nature and in completely different parts of the country, and administrative policies towards alcohol are the same.