COE IS OVERRATED! Pre is overrated, not a man who set 9 WRs in his career, has 2 gold medals and 2 silver medals in the Olympics. You have absolutely no clue about anything related to running, please do not post on here ever again.
COE IS OVERRATED! Pre is overrated, not a man who set 9 WRs in his career, has 2 gold medals and 2 silver medals in the Olympics. You have absolutely no clue about anything related to running, please do not post on here ever again.
the430miler wrote:
running is all about TIME. whoever has the fastest pr/time is THE BETTER RUNNER. period.
Also, how can you say Tergat is a better runner than Geb with this logic? Geb has a faster PR in every distance that matters save the marathon. Are you saying marathon PRs are the only ones that matter when debating distance running greatness? Running is a sport, it is all about WINNING!
that is why our sport (running) is BETTER and DIFFERENT than any other sport out there.
its not like football where if the team loses then everybody goes home sad.
if i run a p.r. in the mile and my team gets last place at the track meet, then im still happy as heck!! because i set a p.r. in the mile!!!
the430miler wrote:
you are absotudelutely wrong.
running is all about TIME. whoever has the fastest pr/time is THE BETTER RUNNER. period.
Oh you poor fool. Do you really think that? How said.
That is why (your complete lack of talent aside) you will never be much of a runner. Running is about WINNING. You think those guys spend so much time gearing up for the Olympics so they can run a fast time? You think Tergat wouldn't trade his world record for Olympic gold? Of course he would. Take a look at El G when he finally won the Olympic gold. Never happier in his life. Crying on the track. You ever see him cry after one of his world records? Nope. Because that gold meant more to him than all those records put together.
Records come and go. Olympic gold is forever. That's why people will remember the name Zatopek long after they've forgotten the name Cram
who cares about a race or what it is worth?? there are tons of races, and tons of factors at races. therefore everyone has good races and bad races.
But the Olympics come only ever 4 years and they matter more to the athletes than all the time-trial races in the world. If Geb only had all his world records and none of his medals, nobody would be calling him the greatest ever. It was his ability to perform when it counted, against the likes of Tergat, that made him great.
but 1 thing remains the same. the ATHELETES P.R. im sure coe set his pr on a day with good conditions, just like cram set his pr on a day with good conditions. this doesnt ignore the fact that CRAMS PR IS FASTER THAN COES PR. thefore, cram is better runner.
And Coe's 800 meter PR is a full second faster than Cram's. His 1000 meter PR is 3/4 second faster than Cram's. Again, big deal. He's got 4 Olympic Medals that Cram would give anything for. Therefore Coe is the better runner
like i said, running is all about the fastest TIME.
Not to the elites it aint. Try actually watching the Olympics some time and maybe you'll understand. I guess you were too young in 2004 to stay up that late.
The 4:30 miler,
You logic is only valid for saying who is faster not better. And you are using it inappropriately by saying one guy is better then another without giving a distance.
Coe is faster than Cram at 800m/1000m
Cram is faster than Coe at 1500/Mile
Tergat is faster than Geb at the marathon
Geb is faster than Tergat at 1500, 3k, 5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, HM and 25k.
Mr. Marathon is faster than Dante Cupepper at all distances longer than 200 meters.
Dante Culpepper is faster than Mr. Marathon at the 40 yard dash.
To say "better" encompasses more than just speed. Faster is speed, "better" is more encompassing including ability to win, race well, riwse to the occassion.
Fernamdo Mamade is faster than Carlos Lopez at 10k but I doubt anyone would say he is a better runner.
(I apologize for the misspelling on anyone's name in this thread. My computer is acting up and so I didn't want to chance opening another screen to research spellings.)
"Better" means who would win if they raced in their prime.
I think Coe would kill Cram and Ovett, when in 1:41 shape
Ryun vs. Scott depends on the pace. with a slow pace, Ryun wins with superior speed. with a fast pace, Scott wins.
El Guerrouj totally mops up. Greatest middle distance runner of all time.
Geb vs. Bekele is tough. I wanna say Geb because he seems to be a more tenacious competitor. Bekele, although probably more talented, has had a few ups and downs in his career. It would be close, but I think Geb.
Geb isn't just faster than Tergat at all those distances, he's better than Tergat too
Coe is better than both. Ryun is the best Miler in American history. El G is better than Aouita. Cmon, hes only the 2nd person ever to win the 1500 and 5k in the same olympics. And Geb is better than Bekele at the moment, and Tergat for all time.
Unrated wrote:
Coe is better than both. Ryun is the best Miler in American history. El G is better than Aouita. Cmon, hes only the 2nd person ever to win the 1500 and 5k in the same olympics. And Geb is better than Bekele at the moment, and Tergat for all time.
then why does steve scott have a faster pr than ryun>??
why did webb break ryuns highschool record by several seconds??
why is higher on the alltime performance list too (#55) for a mile than ryun. and webbs pr is better, and his career is just getting started. webb hasnt retired to be a congressman and left his pr's where theyre at. ryun stayed in the game as long as he could, there were just 1 too many webbs in the mere future to call him the american goat. of course i also believe webb is THE greatest american runner of all time. period. he also holds the american record for 2-miles (8:11)
all of these things lead me to realize that ryun should never be called the american goat miler. maybe in the 70's, but certantly not now that the webb era has exploided and all of his records has been smashed by him.
the430miler wrote:
running is all about TIME. whoever has the fastest pr/time is THE BETTER RUNNER. period.
I think you're pushing your trolling a bit far with this one 430.
Yes - medal count, similar PRs, more dominant
Yes - several world records, silver medal
NO! - Such a stupid question I won't bother explaining why
Yes and no. I say Geb is quite a bit better on the track. Faster PRs at 1500, 3000, 2 miles, and slightly slower 5k and 10k times. However, Bekele is BY FAR a better xc runner. But Geb has broken a lot more WRs than Bekele...
I think we will not be able to decide who is/was better until Bekele's career is over, and even then it will be arguable. Overall, I think Bekele will come out on top. He can still run faster in every event if he wants to. Considering his xc talent and his greater dominance at the longer distances, I predict he will break the half and full marathon world records if he decides to run them in a few years (he probably will).
Just an interesting fact, Paul Tergat has a faster 3k PR than Bekele. 7:28 to 7:30
RYUN HAD A FREAKIN' OLYMPIC SILVER MEDAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WEBB A CHOKER(OH! I MEANT BAD RACE) AT THE OLYMPICS!!!!!
the430miler wrote:
then why does steve scott have a faster pr than ryun>??
why did webb break ryuns highschool record by several seconds??
wi also believe webb is THE greatest american runner of all time. period.
Ok, by your logic how can you say Webb is better than Steve Scott, when Scott has a better mile pr?
How about this one. Whos is better - Paavo Nurmi, who won 9 GOLD MEDALS and had a world mile record of 4:10, or Chris Lear - who ran 4:09 in HS and then proceeded to do nothing more on the track (although he is quite the author). Who's better 430 miler? Share with us your genius.
I think that The 430 Troller is the best troll on this thread.
I disagree with the430miler that times are the only measure.
BUT, I also hate these noobs that think times mean nothing.
What, are you saying Emil Zatopek would beat Bekele?
Times and training have changed, and no matter how nostalgic you are, you can't deny the fact that anyone under 13:00 for 5k would destroy any of the Gold Medalists of the "golden age of track."
Prefontaine, Shorter, etc wouldn't stand a chance vs. today's africans
Is Kelton Tindal > Jesse Owens?
According to 430 he is. After all, he ran faster in the 100. If you don't know who he is, don't feel bad, his 10.50 ranked him barely in the top-50 or so in the US in 2005. For HS. But that's OK, only time matters and it's legit to compare times no matter what.
Bingo! You can't go strictly on times. You go with the ones who were the dominant winners in their era.
I tend to look at a world record as possibly a higher achievment than an Olympic gold medal. You run a world record and you hit a time and place that no other runner has ever done. Yet you have Olympic gold medalists like Ron Delaney, Kip Keino, Pekka Vassala, John Walker, and Peter Rono. Where do they stand in this question?
Only Walker had a WR.
Is a 13:20 5000 runner a better runner than a 13:30 runner 20 years ago strictly based on time? Or did they run their fast time with perfect conditions with pacesetters in an environment that was geared soley towards running a fast mark rather than competing?
the430miler wrote:
coe had a great training regimen, and that is what he is famous for. i still believe he overratted, but who am i to say that about anyone who has run an elite time.
cram has a much faster pr than coe at 1500 and mile, so...
cram > coe
1:41 ring a bell? When did Cram ever do something that otherworldly?
scott has run more sub 4 miles than anyone in the whole history of the world. also 3:47. and much faster then the much taller Jim Ryun, who has the advatntage with those long legs and stride.
obviously scott > ryun.
Scott wasn't nearly as dominant and ahead of his time as Ryun was. In addition, Ryun ran his times on cinder tracks.
obviously el g > aouita. no comparison whatsoever, other than they are both from morrocco.
El guerrouj is king, true. You're right on that one; but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
geb is older and just getting to the distance/marathon stage of his career. i have really never liked geb because of his form, but that doesnt matter cause bekele already broke his track records. everytime i see bekele his legs look they are full of lactic acid, but i guess thats from all the speed work he does. he's also better in holding his form during his kick at the conclusion of a race.
bekele > geb
none of this really matters to me because i think tergat is superior to both of them, here is why i feel that way...
Geb has been more dominant than Bekele, for a longer period of time. Bekele broke each record by only two seconds. Geb has consistently beaten Tergat and the only thing left for Geb is to get the marathon record, if he can, and to amass a large number of good performances, which is only a matter of time.
one I'll explain this thread and two the 430miler needs to go, because he is idiotic with all his threads.
Sebastian Coe was better than Steve Ovett and Steve Cram because he was able to capture two Olympic Gold medals and two other medals as well. He did set the world record in both the 1500 and mile and 800 as well. Ovett was amazing as was Cram but greatness in Track is created at the Olympics. As we see today many people can run a fast time but suck once they get into a race that lacks a pacemaker. Coe and Ovett rarely raced each other but once they did in the signature event the 1500, Coe was the victor.
Jim Ryun and Steve Scott are two very different runners. Both were incredible and both led America in miling in a time when it needed to be led. Scott was more durable than Ryun. Both can be credited as the greatest American milers ever no doubt. But when it came to the Olympics Ryun has to win because he did end up with a Silver medal in 68. However Steve Scott is more than respectable.
Hicham El Guerrouj is the greatest middle distance runner of all time without a doubt. There was question before he doubled winning two golds in Athens, but he confirmed his greatness to become the best mid distance runner in history. Aoutia was amazing and had range, but owning the 1500,mile, 2000, and indoor mile and 1500 as well puts El G atop a high pillar. He also won something like 83 out of 86 finals that he competed in, an incredible number.
Finally, Gebreselassie. Yes Gebreselassie is the greatest distance runner of all time and is better than Bekele. He is an all-around good person and athlete. His range is amazing from a 3:31 1500 to a 2:05 marathon. His shattered so many records and paved the path for others to do well, i.e. Bekele. Bekele is amazing and has the potential to become the fastest runner in history but he hasn't shown the humanistic approach to his running that Geb has and for that Geb wins.
430 go home and try and run 4:29
There you go. Awesome post.
I tend to agree El G has made his statement worthy of the greatest MD runner of all time.
Aouita however will be a personal favorite because in his era he appeared from another world. And he was entertaining and captivating. What was he going to do next? Run a World leading 10,000, or break the mile WR.
No one since has been in that position to even consider that and that is progress in the sport but the progress makes it less interesting as far as I'm concerned. The more this sport has developed the less intriguing it seems.
As far as Steve Scott vs. Ryun, Ryun is easily the pick.
I saw the Zurich race live in 1981 when Scott finally ran 3:50.0 to break the 3:51.1 AR record Ryun set in 1967.
Ryun ran his record taking the lead at U.S. Nationals from the gun and running solo on a clay track. That guy was easily a sub-3:50 miler with pacesetters on mondo way back in 1967.