"Diversity" in schools =Racism?

Yep wrote:

Why not base it on class?

Why not edumacate the parents re: what needs to be done to get junior into the college of his/her choice?

Well, cuz THAT would be indignificating and, you know, oppressionating. Who are YOU to tell ME what is best?

Can anyone translate this for the rest of us?

If this is supposed to be english ,which school did you attend?

Did you gain admission by some type of equal opportunity quota?

This a good point and well worth further invertigating

Diversity...I believe its an old old wodden ship....

nyc wrote:

the only reason this movement is gathering mainstream support is that more and more whites are falling into the lower class. thus they need more money for college.

Do you have any sources for your claim that more whites are now in the lower class? I have a hard time believing this.

I think the main reason this issue is getting attention is that people are reacting to the excessively political correct movement of the 80's and 90's and finally coming to realize that affirmative action is just a cuddly synonym for discrimintation.

I suppose the "poltically correct movement" also allowed less qualified whites to be admitted over more qualified Asians..see below

http://www.advancingequality.org/files/kidderarticle.pdf

northxc wrote:

Diversity...I believe its an old old wodden ship....

"wooden"

Neuropsychiatrist wrote:

I suppose the "poltically correct movement" also allowed less qualified whites to be admitted over more qualified Asians..see below

http://www.advancingequality.org/files/kidderarticle.pdf

From your link:

"At some elite colleges and universities, Asian Pacific American (APA)

applicants have a lesser chance of being admitted than equally qualified

White applicants. This practice, termed “negative action,” is distinct from

affirmative action policies that give a plus factor to some African American,

Latino, and American Indian applicants."

You should read your sources better. It says nothing about "less qualified whites" being admitted over "more qualified Asians." It also says that this practice is not AA, but rather "negative action," and is, in my opinion, just as wrong as AA.

I do read my sources...

1. If an Asian and a White candidate are equal and the White has a greater chance of getting admitted..this already implies that for the Asian to have the same chance of getting admitted, the qualfications must be greater...

2. The article by Kidder differentiates between "Negative action" and "affirmative action" but the two are essentially the same.. Negative action aginst Asians with benefit to White, Black and Hispanic students implies an inherent advantage in being Black, Hispanic or White..thus Affirmative action...

3. There is a refusal among the critics of Affirmative action to acknowledge that Whites are not at a disadvantage and may even be at an advantage in the current admission criteria at elite universities..

If a disproportionate number of Asians are getting in because of their GPAs and test scores, doesn't that, in and of itself, prove that those admission criteria are biased in favor of Asians?

It seems to me that the only "fair" way to solve this is for each school to admit students in proportion to the US population. But of course, that would be illegal quotas...

If I moved to Africa or China and became a citizen...can I then call myself an American-African or American-Chinese?

You can´t spell it right all the time...Im not american, I´m scandinavian, though we are quite good in english compared to the most non-english speaking countries...

What it does mean is that as far as admissions criteria go..Asians (and Jews) for whatever reason (cultural, genetic etc..)are themost qualified group(s) The fact that Asians and Jews have a grossly disproportinate representation at elite universities is not a reflection that it is easier for them to get in...on the contrary, it reflects the polar opposite....if you compared equally qualified (the key to understanding th emeaning behind the stats) Asian, White, Black and Hispanic students, teh acceptance rate of the Asian student is by far the lowest.

At elite universities..the admissions policy basically reflects an affirmative action policy that affords special privileges and benefits to Black, Hispanic and White students at the expense of Asian Students.

White students as well as the mass media will and do not admit this.

Well, maybe I don't understand the "most qualified" criteria, but how would you measure this? Do Asians and Jews graduate from these colleges at a higher rate? Do they contribute more to society after graduation than the other graduates?

As my high schooler would say, yes those Asian kids have perfect grades and test scores, but what will they do to change the world in a positive way?

Get ready for the definitive post of this f***ing thread - all of my points are INARGUABLE.

FACT - education in America sucks and it's going downhill fast. In 1900, you had to know both Ancient Greek and Latin to be admitted to Harvard. Now, if you're a latino and made an 1150 on the SAT, you're probably set. The SAT has been changed twice in the last 15 years, both times making it FAR easier. Why? Because Americans are stupid, and getting stupider.

FACT - acknowledging race in any way is, while not necessarily "racist" in a hateful way, discriminating on the basis of race.

FACT - who gets into top schools is important for EVERYONE because when the best people can gather in one place, great stuff happens.

FACT - I currently attend an Ivy League school. I am a genius. I went to a very good public school and destroyed every test I ever took, every class, etc. However, I find myself almost completely without peers at my school. The VAST majority of students are either A. prep school kids without real concern for academics B. athletes, and although a large percent of them are black, they are almost all inarguably retarded C. various other people who got in based on "intangibles" (such as writing some fabricated, heart-wrenching story about a grandparent's death, or, of course, THEIR SKIN COLOR (not exactly "intangible" I suppose)) who have no business being there because they have no true intellect or desire to change the world for the better

FACT - med schools weigh the MCAT more heavily than anything else because it is an objective test, a level playing field. The SAT, as dumbed down as it is (do any of you people realize how much harder the SAT was as recently as the early 90's? The 2400 version is a joke - I swear to God that I could take it 100 times and make over 2350 every time - the writing is a joke, and the math is a lot more striaghtforward now - that just shouldn't happen) - For some reason, people are scared of objective criteria. People are scared of objectivity. People are scared that, perhaps, Western society is more advanced (I choose my wording carefully) than African society. People are scared that, perhaps, less than 12% of the student population at an Ivy should be made up of African-Americans, because maybe, just maybe, they aren't ready for it yet. No one wants to know they truth, they just want to live in a world of harmony. Guess what? The first step towards that is to quit f***ing discriminating based on race.

FACT - the lovely groups of "diverse" students on campus don't even interact. Just go to the f***ing cafeteria at any of these places. Prepare to see a table of 6' 6" black guys, ie the basketball team, sitting together, a group of chic prep school whities to their left and some Asian math geeks to their right. Diversity is full of shit.

FACT - my sophomore year I lived next to two black football players, one of which quit the football team (which many do 6 months into their freshman years, thus depriving the school of the only decent skills they brought to the table in the first place), whose classes were hand picked by the faculty to be the easiest possible, and who had a stripper pole put up in their room. Yes, that's right, a stripper pole. And guess who danced on it? Strippers, whom they inivited to their room for birthday parties, etc. They also smoked weed all day long (not that I dislike grass, but seriously). I don't even have a moral problem with strippers, but, surely you people see what I'm getting at here.

FACT - Some black guy/Native American/whatever who doesn't get into Harvard isn't going to fail in life. Why not just go to State U on a full ride? Plenty of people do this, and there's nothing wrong with it. But why sacrifice the quality at a place like Harvard or Columbia when you could truly assemble the best and the brightest from the entire world? Instead, we get this politically concocted mixture of various rich people with influence, various minorities, legacies, underprivelidged, and foreigners who can't speak English and won't contribute a god damn thing to any class outside of the engineering department.

FACT - minorities who truly deserve to get into these places never get to fully enjoy the experience because they know everyone looks down upon them as affirmative action babies

FACT - There are all sorts of... not racist per se, but, to coin a term on the spot, separatist groups based on race - The Black Students Organization, the Asian Alliance... these do nothing but make everyone feel trapped in a f***ing group based on skin color, and keep holding our country back by harping on race race race 24/7/365...

FACT - our society would be better off to move swiftly and decisively towards COLORBLINDNESS... and no I don't mean that you can't acknolwedge someone's skin color, I'm saying that the very reason we are still mired in problems of race is simply because people make it an issue. It's only going to be an issue as long as dumbasses make it an issue. Sadly, I think dumbasses will continue to make it an issue for many, many years to come.

You, my friend, are what is wrong with society today.

Ok, so, Asians are more qualified, and your logic is that there is a BIAS? HAHAHAHAHA. Wake up. Snap out of it. Crawl out from under your ROCK.

Have you ever thought, just for one second, that perhaps a certain group could just be more qualified based on OBJECTIVE, NON-BIASED CRITERIA, ie ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT?????????????

You are beyond salvation. I hope that you have some shitty cubicle job and never have to make any important moral decisions or decisions of policy or anything else that could actually affect me or anyone I care about.

"did you know that if the MINIMUM WAGE HAD MATCHED INFLATION OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS THAT IT WOULD BE OVER 30 DOLLARS / HOUR ???????"

Do you know that if minimun wage was over $30/hr that inflation would have gone up a ton more?

If you are paying your workers $30/hr then you have to charge more for everything from the gas at the pump to the price of consumer goods. Guess what that does to inflation, moron.

Just take a look at the UC system if you want to see what will happen to our schools if we go "colorblind." The UCs are probably the closest thing to colorblind, and now most of the campuses are made up of huge populations of Asians, and getting larger every year. (I think its 48% or more at Cal). If we just keep going by GPAs and SAT scores (supposedly what makes you "most qualified,"), we will end up with the UC system consisting of purely Asian females. No one else will want to go there anyway, once it becomes mostly Asian. I guess that would be fine if you think it constitutes "the best and brightest" all together on the campus, but I do not think it is a good idea.

Obviously, factors other than the pure numbers make people special. Even athletes that you so disdain, have made physical and mental sacrifices that you will never know or appreciate.

Now that I think of it, you are not a genius at all.

Diversity of experience is much different than diversity of skin color. Isiah Thomas's children have had a much more different, and probably more diverse, upbringing than other black children, that are from the west side of Chicago born to unwed parents. Should Isiah's children be accepted into a college because they are African-American, or because they studied hard, and merited the acceptance to a college? And if they are accepted based on "diversity" of their skin color, aren't they possibly cheating out far greater disadvantaged African Americans? And too stretch the point, Isiah had 14 brothers and sisters, and a lot of his brothers did nothing much more than gang-bang, but were far better ball players than he was. Is it Isiah's fault that he didn't gangbang, that he didn't start smoking pot at age 12 like a couple of his brothers did; that he stayed clean through high school, college and the NBA? Should his children be punished, and not accepted because he has done well financially?

BenjiTheHunted wrote:

FACT - the lovely groups of "diverse" students on campus don't even interact. Just go to the f***ing cafeteria at any of these places. Prepare to see a table of 6' 6" black guys, ie the basketball team, sitting together, a group of chic prep school whities to their left and some Asian math geeks to their right. Diversity is full of shit.

don't forget the white girls that sleep with the black basketball players. i bet that pisses you off, huh?