........PSAC.......

How does ship become the favorite by running slower? everyone is always quick to jump on their bandwagon. Lock Haven's course is not short, there were heavy winds saturday in lock haven as well, correct me if i'm wrong but mansfield and lock haven are pretty close? So it's possible they had the same conditions. Not sure what more lock haven can do besides dominating ship twice and running faster all year. But whatever you guys say, ship has 10 guys that will break 25 and put 10 in front of lock havens 1!

How can you do something if you don't believe you can do it first. Every team has fans that think it can win...even the Jets and Raiders.

Just relax and enjoy the races.

hell no! stir it up the debate is what makes this thread fun! GO WCU!!!!

Some day soon, West Chester's number will be called. The past will become the future, only time will tell...

GO BORO

how about those edinboro girls though? 5th girl was 16th...6th girl was way back but still not awful for a frosh. I'm thinking with such a small 2-7 spread this team will be noticed in louisville. and some fearless running from their front runner...any thought on hoe well this team can do come dec 6?

I think they will be a top 10-12 team no doubt, difficult to say where they stack up against other regions though. Same with the men's side I'd like to think we have 3 top 15 teams and 6 guys I think in the top 40 from our conference but only time will tell, especially once transitioning to a not so strategic 10k where they are all showing how much strength they have to battle with the nation's finest, I mean link and Burleigh were top 45 last year and I feel safe saying they have made progress forward. I'm also a little surprised to see McGinley and fadale as close as they were to the guys we expected up front (behind dinzeo of course) though.

The results looked good. What were the conditions like? How is that course?

Very flat but also pretty muddy yesterday. The race went out pretty conservative so I would say the times were pretty fast all considering. It could have been faster if drier and if more evenly paced. Slower conditions than a week ago I would say.

Who's gonna be setting up a feed to watch D1 nats while we're at Regionals tomorrow? Surely somebody has the technology to do this!!!

what's up everyone!?

Great run my McGinley yesterday. That was cool. Haven looks strong. Can they capture an extra spot for the region? Can Dinzeo win? That would be epic.

If Dinzeo is a favorite to win and only beat Burleigh by .4 seconds does that mean he is a top 10 threat?

Haven looks like they are ready for a top 8 finish. Time to get it done boys.

How many All-Americans can the PSAC men get come DEC 6th.

Dinzeo, Burleigh, Mountain, Link

I say only 4.

Haven to Have a Top 8 Finish would require them to have all 5 guys in the top 100 not an easy task. Just ask Edinboro last two years have been 9th place.

I am hoping Haven can break into the top 8 and get another bid for the region but do we really deserve another bid??

The last few weeks have been interesting. I learned a few things.

1) I owe the women of Edinboro an apology. That's a damn good team and I underestimated them. they are clearly the best team in the conference and region this year.

2) Lock Haven is a top 8 team, normally there's a list of teams 7 teams across the country that are better than the best from the PSAC (Adams, Mines, Augie, Chico, Alaska, Western, Grand Valley). That leaves the PSAC fighting the rest of the country for one spot. This is a down year for Western, meaning there are two spots. I think Lock Haven can grab one of them. Fadale's late season push will send them into the top 8. Right now at the national level I think they stack up something around 30, 35, 50, 85, 90. That should be enough to get them a top 8 spot.

3) Burleigh might be a top 15 guy. After Paul Short no one was saying that, after regionals, people will say i'm not giving him enough credit at 15.

Nationals is going to be fun.

Shimmy's back baby!

Also autocorrected Shizzy to Shimmy. But I'll take it.

what about jones? sullivan? ahrens? boro has somm top 40 girls. and its a HUGE long shot as the 16th ranked team but besides the top three teams (adams, gvsu,western) maybe if everyone has their best day they could be the 4th place team...?

I think that Lock Haven has the talent to get into the top 8 at Nats this year. Mains, Mountain and Fadale all are able to run together as a pack, which is a huge confidence boost/motivator when you look to your left and right and see the guys you have been grinding with in practice, workouts and races all year long, that huge, especially for that 1-2-3 punch to be so far up in the field. I feel that the three of them have a great chance at being in the top 30. Then you have Robinson, Diltz, Guiod, and Fetterman or Replogle (depending on who is the alternate) who can all put down some pretty fast times, and they all pack run. I think that if all the Haven athletes have a level head and race how they have at Regionals and PSACs, we may see them finish at best #5. Now I know this will cause a debate, but you heard it here first. Haven for #5.

No, no, no, no. We do this every year. If Edinboro has their best day they can be 4th, Haven can be 5th. Last year Edinboro and Mansfield were both getting top 6. It's nonsense.

Let's look at the 5th ranked team on each side.

Men - Augie

Karbo - 19th @ cross nats last year, 8:50 steeple PR, 3:50 1500m

Braun - 24th @ XC nats in 2012, 58th last year, 9:08 steeple PR

Hauge - 64th @ XC nats in 2012, 14:36 5k PR

Carda - no notable XC experience - 14:52 5k PR, 30:53 10k PR

Ellingson - no notable XC experience - 14:51 5k, 31:08 10k

Gleason - 59th @ XC nats in 2013, 14:43 5k PR,

Klecker - 79th @ XC nats in 2013, 8:23 3k, 14:47 5k

I'll spare you posting the comparable Haven runners. It's not a pretty comparison. You have to assume all 7 Haven runners made a giant leap forward from last spring just to compete with the Augie team.

Women - Hillsdale

Oren - 91st @ XC nats 2013, 4:51 mile, 10:27 steeple

Galat - 63rd @ XC nats in 2013, 4:55 mile, 16:53 5k

McIntyre - 2:19/5:08 High School PRs, beat Edinboro's #2 @ Louisville

Oren - 108 @ XC nats in 2013, 17:53 5k PR, beat Edinboro's #3 @ Louisville

Kilgore - 133 @ XC nats in 2013, 18:08 5k , did not race at Louisville

Royer - No XC experience of note, 5:02 miler, beat Edinboro's #4 @ Louisville.

Kerst - 2:11 800m, 5:01 mile, finished just behind Edinboro's 5 @ Louisville (when she was the team's #8).

Edinboro's women compare well to Hillsdale, the gap between PRs isn't significant at every position. However, at Louisville Hillsdale won at every position 1-7. Plus, Hillsdale has added in another top 5 runner.

The bottom line is, the PSAC, since the end of 2004 has a ceiling of 7th/8th at the NCAA meet. The only teams to break through that ceiling in the last decade were led by Neely Spence and Mary Dell. The 4th place team had 3 girls who concluded their careers with top 3 finishes at the NCAA meet. That's the type of talent and achievement it takes to crack the top 5 at DII nationals. The Edinboro women and Lock Haven men are very good, but they aren't top 5 good.