Pete Rose - Hall or No Hall??

Rose is already in the Hall of Shame, and he should be satisfied with that. When you call for that lying cheat to be put into the Hall of Fame, you are basically saying that winning, bluster and aggression matter more than respect for the game itself. I find that terribly depressing--but then again, we have a new sort of America these days.

Trumping Along wrote:

Trump is planning something for Pete Rose. He may pardon him and write and executive order forcing him on the Hall of Fame. He might pardon Lance Armstrong next after Pete is taken care of.

"Pete Rose played Major League Baseball for 24 seasons, from 1963-1986, and had more hits, 4,256, than any other player (by a wide margin). He gambled, but only on his own team winning, and paid a decades long price. GET PETE ROSE INTO THE BASEBALL HALL OF FAME. It's Time!" Trump wrote.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/08/politics/donald-trump-pete-rose-hall-of-fame-trnd/index.html

Trump must think he's losing Ohio.

Esterhazy wrote:

Rose is already in the Hall of Shame, and he should be satisfied with that. When you call for that lying cheat to be put into the Hall of Fame, you are basically saying that winning, bluster and aggression matter more than respect for the game itself. I find that terribly depressing--but then again, we have a new sort of America these days.

Trump's knee-jerk support doesn't change anything. I've never heard of anyone in MLB support allowing him back into MLB or into the HOF. He broke the most important rule in baseball and one that is posted in every single clubhouse.

I love the pork wrote:

Cactus Cal wrote:

Simply put: Rose hurt the integrity of the league.

The "integrity" of the league that is now in bed with gambling? You must be joking.

You, an outsider, betting on baseball has no effect* on the outcome (*OK, realistic effect, if we consider chaos theory). A baseball player or manager betting on a game has identifiable implications on the result. Is this really a hard concept to understand?

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Esterhazy wrote:

Rose is already in the Hall of Shame, and he should be satisfied with that. When you call for that lying cheat to be put into the Hall of Fame, you are basically saying that winning, bluster and aggression matter more than respect for the game itself. I find that terribly depressing--but then again, we have a new sort of America these days.

Trump's knee-jerk support doesn't change anything. I've never heard of anyone in MLB support allowing him back into MLB or into the HOF. He broke the most important rule in baseball and one that is posted in every single clubhouse.

Good to know this. I was born outside the USA but I used to listen to baseball on shortwave radio as a child. This was in fact a dangerous activity in Hungary. To me baseball represented what America aspired to be, diverse, egalitarian, and fair. It was a hopeful game to listen to living in an oppressed nation.

Cactus Cal wrote:

The problem with the pro-Rose "but he only bet on his team to win" argument: When Rose DIDN'T bet on a Reds game, that sent a message to his bookies (and others in the gambling underworld) that he wasn't confident that the Reds would win (and they would, subsequently, bet on the Reds to lose while giving a hat-tip to Rose for the insider information).

Also, in Reds games that Rose the gambling degenerate didn't bet on, he could have had less incentive/enthusiasm to manage the team to victory.

Even in Reds games that Rose bet on (to win), the bet could have clouded Rose's judgment and decision-making.

Simply put: Rose hurt the integrity of the league. He deserves the lifetime ban and exclusion from the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Giamatti's investigation took this a little further and it's what led to his ban. They found that in games where Rose bet on the Reds he managed differently that when he didn't, in terms of lineups/bullpen usage, etc. Winning and losing isn't a sure thing when you do that but it changes the odds enough in the long run that the game is essentially rigged to win him his bets. They can never let him in after doing that.

Pete is as famous as the players who are in the HOF. In fact, he is MORE famous than most. Him not being in the Hall is a disgrace to the sport.

For the record, I can't stand the prick.

Steve Martin wrote:

Pete is as famous as the players who are in the HOF. In fact, he is MORE famous than most. Him not being in the Hall is a disgrace to the sport.

For the record, I can't stand the prick.

You have an unfortunately literal interpretation of the word "fame" here. This is not the way many of us see the role of the institution. Rose is notable and well known, yes. So what. He brought dishonor to the sport and that should keep him out. But who knows, as fast as institutions are being dismantled right now because one bully with power demands it, you may get your way in short order. Ben Johnson is well know too. Maybe we will get him inducted a few places. Maybe Jeff Gillooly and Tonya Harding can get in somewhere while we are at it. They are certainly well known.

I’ve heard that modern players don’t believe Babe Ruth hit home runs while hung over without the use of cocaine. But now we know much more about our athletes, it’s a tough deal.

jesseriley wrote:

I’ve heard that modern players don’t believe Babe Ruth hit home runs while hung over without the use of cocaine. But now we know much more about our athletes, it’s a tough deal.

Through at least early 1980s, amphetamines were available openly in buckets in M.L.B. and N.F.L. Sport reporters know this. What you stated is no secret. Cocaine and other P.E.D.s is not as bad as gambling. Gambling is the worst. WWE and formerly WWF type professional wrestling used to be legit. It became phony due to gambling. If you want major league baseball to be the same a professional wrestling, turn a blind eye to gambling.

amphetamines in M.L.B. wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

I’ve heard that modern players don’t believe Babe Ruth hit home runs while hung over without the use of cocaine. But now we know much more about our athletes, it’s a tough deal.

Through at least early 1980s, amphetamines were available openly in buckets in M.L.B. and N.F.L. Sport reporters know this. What you stated is no secret. Cocaine and other P.E.D.s is not as bad as gambling. Gambling is the worst. WWE and formerly WWF type professional wrestling used to be legit. It became phony due to gambling. If you want major league baseball to be the same a professional wrestling, turn a blind eye to gambling.

What are you talking about? WWE and WWF was never legit and no one in their right mind ever bet on it. That crap started when television became popular after WWII and outcomes were scripted from day one.

my guess wrote:

amphetamines in M.L.B. wrote:

Through at least early 1980s, amphetamines were available openly in buckets in M.L.B. and N.F.L. Sport reporters know this. What you stated is no secret. Cocaine and other P.E.D.s is not as bad as gambling. Gambling is the worst. WWE and formerly WWF type professional wrestling used to be legit. It became phony due to gambling. If you want major league baseball to be the same a professional wrestling, turn a blind eye to gambling.

What are you talking about? WWE and WWF was never legit and no one in their right mind ever bet on it. That crap started when television became popular after WWII and outcomes were scripted from day one.

Before you attack me, please read carefully what I stated.

I stated WWE and WWF TYPE professional wrestling used to be legit. A long time ago, wrestling WAS legit.

Do you have a source for that?