I could take all the EPO in the word and still be beaten by Jakob. A more talented runner can beat a doper without being a doper themself.
Exactly. The.argument expressed here repeatedly that 'clean athletes can't beat doped athletes, so they must all be doping' is so dumb.
Even if,.say, 50% of elite athletes are doping, that's not the same as saying 50% of elite talents are doping. Many or.most of the dopers may never have reached elite level without drugs.
talent without dope can beat dope without talent, but it can't beat dope with talent.
All top 10 are presumptive dopers. Ironically this is why nobody minds. If everyone cheats, is it really cheating?
Again, you're making the mistake of assuming dopers like Katir are talented (as in world class) to begin with. Katir was likely always doping with roids. He used to be a male model and posted pics of himself with insane abs on Instagram. During the lockdowns and his new baker coach is when he started fullthrottling with EPO. Remember that the EPO around today is more powerful than that which El G and Komen, Ngeny were using.
Doping turned an above average Katir (bronze? 3k indoor euro champs) to ultraelite (dropping a minute off of his 5k, 7’23 indoors, and smashing 3’30). He was good without drugs and amazing with them.
He was likely doping when he won that indoor bronze. His level was fringe Spanish national class.
Even if,.say, 50% of elite athletes are doping, that's not the same as saying 50% of elite talents are doping. Many or.most of the dopers may never have reached elite level without drugs.
First sentence is correct, in theory. Second second is baseless - how would you know?
If 50% are doping, 50% are gaining at least 2%, even more according to you and experts like Ashenden and Schumacher. That's over 4 seconds in the 1500. For a clean Jakob to be beating them all, it means that no doper has enough talent to run 3:30 even with superspikes in Monaco - or they would run under 3:26 there.
Further, if Jakob is clean, he would be running 3:23 if doped, yet no one has gone under 3:27 since EPO doper Kiprop.
No, this does not mean that everyone dopes. But the likelyhood for any sub-3:30 runner to be clean is extremely tiny.
talent without dope can beat dope without talent, but it can't beat dope with talent.
All top 10 are presumptive dopers. Ironically this is why nobody minds. If everyone cheats, is it really cheating?
Again, you're making the mistake of assuming dopers like Katir are talented (as in world class) to begin with. Katir was likely always doping with roids. He used to be a male model and posted pics of himself with insane abs on Instagram. During the lockdowns and his new baker coach is when he started fullthrottling with EPO. Remember that the EPO around today is more powerful than that which El G and Komen, Ngeny were using.
I personally think Jakob has been doping since he was a child.
Doping turned an above average Katir (bronze? 3k indoor euro champs) to ultraelite (dropping a minute off of his 5k, 7’23 indoors, and smashing 3’30). He was good without drugs and amazing with them.
He was likely doping when he won that indoor bronze. His level was fringe Spanish national class.
Katir didn´t win an indoor bronze. Mechaal did after silver to Belgian Kimeli and gold to Jakob. Katir was no. 4 and Nordaas no. 5.
Norway superstar Jakob Ingebrigtsen proved once again that he is one of the best athletes in the world, gliding to a dominant victory in the men’s 3000m fina...
Katir killed himself trying to hang on to "low-speed" Jakob. Jakob: The only time I went all-in in this Indoor champs was the last 100m of the 3000m final.
When the silver medalist (Kimeli) is overly happy you know the winner is good.
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But it is true that Katir already had made a big jump forward in 2021(he had run 7:35 in the 3000m prior to the 2021 European Indoors champs). His 7:35 was an 13.5 sec improvement from 2020 SB in the 3000m.
I could take all the EPO in the word and still be beaten by Jakob. A more talented runner can beat a doper without being a doper themself.
Exactly. The.argument expressed here repeatedly that 'clean athletes can't beat doped athletes, so they must all be doping' is so dumb.
Even if,.say, 50% of elite athletes are doping, that's not the same as saying 50% of elite talents are doping. Many or.most of the dopers may never have reached elite level without drugs.
By the same argument you will also see that some will never be Olympic or world champions without drugs. Ramzi. There is no "cut-off" where doping doesn't occur.
talent without dope can beat dope without talent, but it can't beat dope with talent.
All top 10 are presumptive dopers. Ironically this is why nobody minds. If everyone cheats, is it really cheating?
Again, you're making the mistake of assuming dopers like Katir are talented (as in world class) to begin with. Katir was likely always doping with roids. He used to be a male model and posted pics of himself with insane abs on Instagram. During the lockdowns and his new baker coach is when he started fullthrottling with EPO. Remember that the EPO around today is more powerful than that which El G and Komen, Ngeny were using.
Doped or not, there is always talent required to run 3:28.
i am curious if some folks understand how WADA whereabouts works. imagine you happily living your free life, practicing when you want, where you want, imagine you can hang out with family and friends when you want and where you want. imagine you can go on vacation, to the mall, etc., and not have to tell anyone when and where.
now cross the rubicon and you have to let some functionary know what you are doing all the time, where you are going to be, in case they want to test you today. if the functionary shows up where you normally are, and you aren't there, strike 1. enough strikes, whereabouts ban.
i get where someone could be literally avoiding drug testing. this is one possibility. it can also be someone got sick of big brother knowing their every move, thought they could sneak out and take their kid to the mall for a half day, without having to post their comings and goings, and the test crew showed up.
you would think conservatives would inherently "get" this but i think they want to go after foreigners even more.
All elite athletes know the rules. Sports is their job and nobody is forcing them to do it.
i am curious if some folks understand how WADA whereabouts works. imagine you happily living your free life, practicing when you want, where you want, imagine you can hang out with family and friends when you want and where you want. imagine you can go on vacation, to the mall, etc., and not have to tell anyone when and where.
now cross the rubicon and you have to let some functionary know what you are doing all the time, where you are going to be, in case they want to test you today. if the functionary shows up where you normally are, and you aren't there, strike 1. enough strikes, whereabouts ban.
i get where someone could be literally avoiding drug testing. this is one possibility. it can also be someone got sick of big brother knowing their every move, thought they could sneak out and take their kid to the mall for a half day, without having to post their comings and goings, and the test crew showed up.
you would think conservatives would inherently "get" this but i think they want to go after foreigners even more.
I don't understand the down votes.
Nick Symmonds talks about this in his book. Carrie Tollefson posted on social media once that she went to visit her parents 90 minutes away. She didn't post it wherever they have to post it.
Her husband calls as she's driving- drug testers are here.
She had to turn around and get home and pee BEFORE 90 minutes or- whereabouts!!!
There was a story about testers showing up to a pub to test Paula Redcliffe. She told them where she would be and they showed up there instead of her house.
Now, imagine every time you leave your house you have to tell them where you're going.
snowflakes recall me the folks next door living in their own clouds and believing they are in paradise surrounded by evils.
A medium African if he has half of Jakob support and half of his easy life, will break all records that come to mind.
You have of course a point here… But one has to add that Jakob lacks the opportunity of altitude training in his homeland (that some of the Kenyans and Ethiopians f.ex got), and also has to endure snowy / icy roads at least occasionally in the winter time…