It’s Frank Shorter. Olympic gold and silver. End of story. Next question.
From an accomplishment standpoint, it’s hard to argue, but Hall has five of the top 20 fastest American times including number one.
Jim Lightbody greatest US 1500m runner ever? If you only look acoomishments it isn’t close. If you factor in things like level of competition it gets a lot harder. Those 70/early 80s guy wouldn’t have racked up the wins if they had a dozen East Africans in every race.
And obviously you do the reverse when looking at times. You don’t make a list of PRs and have shorter well behind Zach Panning…
And in all these lists, Meb doesn’t get enough love.
Won an NCAA xc title, won a US xc title. Won NYC marathon while still at Oregon. At one point held us record at 5000, 10000 and ranked #1 in world marathon simultaneously.
In an argument for the ultra runner haters, he also won Comrades Marathon ultra race in South Africa in his post regular marathon career.
After that, you can argue between Meb, Rupp and Salazar IMO, and I’d probably put them in that order. Khannouchi had so few great races as an American, and though I normally don’t like to do this I’m kind of dinging him for having already 100% arrived (and set a WR) before getting U.S. citizenship. Hall deserves an honorable mention but I think he’s an Olympic bronze or a WMM win away from matching Rupp and Meb.
He settled in USA since 1992 and most of his races were their. There very few Moroccan resources talking about him.
Even his wiki is written in Egyptian (in the Arabic side)
Another way to figure out who is an all-time great is the "would I want to watch" test. If you were alive in 1976, who would you be tuning in to watch? Rodgers and Shorter. In 1980? Salazar. In the 1990s? Nobody. In the 2010s? Rupp and Hall and Meb.
You can't really go on times too much because there is nothing that old-timers could have done differently... It isn't like they could have run a 2:01 back in 1976. So you can't fault those guys for "only" getting golds and records.
p.s. Khalid Kannouchi was a great runner but he is not the product of the American running culture and our system of coaching. He was a person who ran great after his move to America, but we don't deserve the credit for developing him...
Another way to figure out who is an all-time great is the "would I want to watch" test. If you were alive in 1976, who would you be tuning in to watch? Rodgers and Shorter. In 1980? Salazar. In the 1990s? Nobody. In the 2010s? Rupp and Hall and Meb.
You can't really go on times too much because there is nothing that old-timers could have done differently... It isn't like they could have run a 2:01 back in 1976. So you can't fault those guys for "only" getting golds and records.
p.s. Khalid Kannouchi was a great runner but he is not the product of the American running culture and our system of coaching. He was a person who ran great after his move to America, but we don't deserve the credit for developing him...
In the 2000s? Khannouchi. OK we don't deserve the developing credit, but the question was about "the best American marathon runner of all time" - and there he can't be beaten by Rupp (but by Shorter).
How many NYC Marathons would prime Rodgers win against current competition? Zero.
If you're talking about sticking Billy at his prime into a time machine and bringing him to our time you may well be right. If you're talking about taking their pregnant mothers into a time machine and sending them back to 1950 so they're born in the same era as BR was I would not bet anything significant on your being right here.
Shorter has OG and should have two OG if we are being honest about 1976.
Rupp was fast but had the shoes (still, he is great).
Hall was our most recent "wow, what if" kind of runner but was never able to win big internationally.
Meb was great (and a great person) but literally struggled to break 2:10. He was a baller but times do matter...
Beyond those five, I can't really think of anyone that the American system has produced...
Bill Rodgers, of course. He won Boston and New York 4 times each. Ran multiple 2:09 national records in Boston, 2:10:10 CR in NY, 2:08:23 in Japan on a course that was 200m short, when those times were plenty fast. Also racked up wins in Fukuoka, Amsterdam, Toronto, Stockholm, Melbourne… During his prime he was racing 3-6 marathons per year and winning a majority of them.
Track and Field News has always put out solid annual rankings. Frank Shorter (‘71-‘73) and Rodgers (‘75, ‘77, ‘79) were both ranked #1 in the world 3 times. Salazar was ranked #1 twice (‘81/‘82), but his time at or near the top was so short lived and (like Rodgers) he never found Shorter’s Olympic success. Rupp in comparison made two appearances in the top 10: 4th in 2016 and 6th in 2017.
1. Frank Shorter
2. Bill Rodgers
…
After that, you can argue between Meb, Rupp and Salazar IMO, and I’d probably put them in that order. Khannouchi had so few great races as an American, and though I normally don’t like to do this I’m kind of dinging him for having already 100% arrived (and set a WR) before getting U.S. citizenship. Hall deserves an honorable mention but I think he’s an Olympic bronze or a WMM win away from matching Rupp and Meb.
Rodger's best chance at the Olympics was the year the US boycotted
Bill Rodgers is the best US marathoner, hands down. Rodgers won 20 marathons. 4 Bostons. 4 NYs. He had a bad day at the 1976 Olympic marathon. He did not get to go to the 1980 Olympic marathon due to the boycott. In 1980, no one could touch Rodgers (Salazar was on the 10k team in 1980).
Shorter has two Olympic medals. But his marathon career was basically just five years long.
Salazar was dominant in NY, but flamed out pretty fast after pushing himself to hard.
Bill Rodgers is the best US marathoner, hands down. Rodgers won 20 marathons. 4 Bostons. 4 NYs. He had a bad day at the 1976 Olympic marathon. He did not get to go to the 1980 Olympic marathon due to the boycott. In 1980, no one could touch Rodgers (Salazar was on the 10k team in 1980).
Shorter has two Olympic medals. But his marathon career was basically just five years long.
Salazar was dominant in NY, but flamed out pretty fast after pushing himself to hard.
Rodgers might not have won the 1980 trials. Tony Sandoval was in monster shape for that race.