The use of super spikes this less impressive. 8:50 is the replacement for previous sub 9:00. Still fast, though.
Add 10s to the times and they are still pretty awesome compared to pre2020 times.
It would interesting to see the training plans of all these kids. Is it mainly just being able to run 60mpw and a bit better workouts? And yeah who knows how much super foams help in not breaking down as you up your mileage.
We can all agree that Timo Mostert is a far better coach than Sean Brosnan ever was, right? He’s consistently doing so much without the help of the two most talented families in the US.
Truth and he’s not a total narcissistic a-hole. I don’t think he’s ever been accused of breaking any rules or cheating either.
No, we can't all agree on that. Brosnan has multiple other sub-9 guys to his credit in addition to those five, and that family isn't more talented than every other; it just is motivated and driven and had the right coach. How many coaches with one great brother ever generate a second great? Utah has an altitude advantage and a tremendous running culture that makes it per capita the most accomplished state for distance running right now.
No, we can't all agree on that. Brosnan has multiple other sub-9 guys to his credit in addition to those five, and that family isn't more talented than every other; it just is motivated and driven and had the right coach. How many coaches with one great brother ever generate a second great? Utah has an altitude advantage and a tremendous running culture that makes it per capita the most accomplished state for distance running right now.
In 2019, Newbury Park won NXN with only 1 Sahlman and 1 Young scoring. It takes 5 to score, not 2
I should have said 8:34.96/8:38.34 for American Fork's guys Simmons and Jaster, and American Fork has a junior, Kaden Evans, who ran 8:46.10 as well, so he has a chance to break 8:40 this year but will probably do so next year.
No, we can't all agree on that. Brosnan has multiple other sub-9 guys to his credit in addition to those five, and that family isn't more talented than every other; it just is motivated and driven and had the right coach. How many coaches with one great brother ever generate a second great? Utah has an altitude advantage and a tremendous running culture that makes it per capita the most accomplished state for distance running right now.
Who are the other multiple? I see Appleford and if you want to count Aschbrenner's time trial, I'll even let you have that. So, that's 2 in 5 years of coaching. Not close to what American Fork has done and not even close to the amount of time they've done it. I admire your steadfast devotion at the altar of Brosnan and I'm sure he does too, but it is clouding your judgement.
No, we can't all agree on that. Brosnan has multiple other sub-9 guys to his credit in addition to those five, and that family isn't more talented than every other; it just is motivated and driven and had the right coach. How many coaches with one great brother ever generate a second great? Utah has an altitude advantage and a tremendous running culture that makes it per capita the most accomplished state for distance running right now.
In 2019, Newbury Park won NXN with only 1 Sahlman and 1 Young scoring. It takes 5 to score, not 2
So, one title with Nico and Colin who are arguably the greatest 2 high school runners in the past decade. In his two years before the Sahlmans arrived, he barely squeaked into the state meet and missed the state meet all together. He has never had success without them.
So, one title with Nico and Colin who are arguably the greatest 2 high school runners in the past decade. In his two years before the Sahlmans arrived, he barely squeaked into the state meet and missed the state meet all together. He has never had success without them.
And before Brosnan, they hadn't qualified for state in decades. IIRC they hadn't even qualified for league championships in decades.
The guys who were freshmen when Brosnan started coaching at NP were seniors when they won their first national title. I think it's pretty hard to ask for much more than that from a coach. Well, unless you wanted that coach to win multiple national titles and break multiple national records, which Brosnan also did.
To your point directly: You realize that to even make the argument that Brosnan isn't that good, you can't let him take credit for his 5 greatest athletes? I get that they're related, but there are plenty of great runners with twins/siblings that are never close to as fast. And even if you do take the Youngs/Sahlmans out, you've got Aschbrenner, Appleford, Cantu, Goldstein, and Doshi, who ran 8:44/8:52/8:57/9:00/9:02 between 2020 and 2023.
So, one title with Nico and Colin who are arguably the greatest 2 high school runners in the past decade. In his two years before the Sahlmans arrived, he barely squeaked into the state meet and missed the state meet all together. He has never had success without them.
And before Brosnan, they hadn't qualified for state in decades. IIRC they hadn't even qualified for league championships in decades.
The guys who were freshmen when Brosnan started coaching at NP were seniors when they won their first national title. I think it's pretty hard to ask for much more than that from a coach. Well, unless you wanted that coach to win multiple national titles and break multiple national records, which Brosnan also did.
To your point directly: You realize that to even make the argument that Brosnan isn't that good, you can't let him take credit for his 5 greatest athletes? I get that they're related, but there are plenty of great runners with twins/siblings that are never close to as fast. And even if you do take the Youngs/Sahlmans out, you've got Aschbrenner, Appleford, Cantu, Goldstein, and Doshi, who ran 8:44/8:52/8:57/9:00/9:02 between 2020 and 2023.
And Martinez who ran a sub-15 at RunningLane. Also 9:10 3200
So, one title with Nico and Colin who are arguably the greatest 2 high school runners in the past decade. In his two years before the Sahlmans arrived, he barely squeaked into the state meet and missed the state meet all together. He has never had success without them.
And before Brosnan, they hadn't qualified for state in decades. IIRC they hadn't even qualified for league championships in decades.
The guys who were freshmen when Brosnan started coaching at NP were seniors when they won their first national title. I think it's pretty hard to ask for much more than that from a coach. Well, unless you wanted that coach to win multiple national titles and break multiple national records, which Brosnan also did.
To your point directly: You realize that to even make the argument that Brosnan isn't that good, you can't let him take credit for his 5 greatest athletes? I get that they're related, but there are plenty of great runners with twins/siblings that are never close to as fast. And even if you do take the Youngs/Sahlmans out, you've got Aschbrenner, Appleford, Cantu, Goldstein, and Doshi, who ran 8:44/8:52/8:57/9:00/9:02 between 2020 and 2023.
I’ve never heard anyone say he didn’t do a good job, but why does it have to be the greatest of all time? He was exceptionally lucky to have the Sahlmans and Youngs, but there are MANY coaches who have accomplished more over a much longer period of time. Mostart is obviously more accomplished, along with Soles. Had Brosnan had NXN contending teams a handful of times over the next 10 years, it would have been a more realistic argument, but really 3 historic years with 2 sets of brothers isn’t close to enough to put him in the very upper echelon of all time greats. By the way, Cantù didn’t run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching. The fact someone is trying to give him credit for what people ran when he wasn’t the coach summarizes how ridiculous people are when it comes to heaping praise on Brosnan.
And before Brosnan, they hadn't qualified for state in decades. IIRC they hadn't even qualified for league championships in decades.
The guys who were freshmen when Brosnan started coaching at NP were seniors when they won their first national title. I think it's pretty hard to ask for much more than that from a coach. Well, unless you wanted that coach to win multiple national titles and break multiple national records, which Brosnan also did.
To your point directly: You realize that to even make the argument that Brosnan isn't that good, you can't let him take credit for his 5 greatest athletes? I get that they're related, but there are plenty of great runners with twins/siblings that are never close to as fast. And even if you do take the Youngs/Sahlmans out, you've got Aschbrenner, Appleford, Cantu, Goldstein, and Doshi, who ran 8:44/8:52/8:57/9:00/9:02 between 2020 and 2023.
I’ve never heard anyone say he didn’t do a good job, but why does it have to be the greatest of all time? He was exceptionally lucky to have the Sahlmans and Youngs, but there are MANY coaches who have accomplished more over a much longer period of time. Mostart is obviously more accomplished, along with Soles. Had Brosnan had NXN contending teams a handful of times over the next 10 years, it would have been a more realistic argument, but really 3 historic years with 2 sets of brothers isn’t close to enough to put him in the very upper echelon of all time greats. By the way, Cantù didn’t run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching. The fact someone is trying to give him credit for what people ran when he wasn’t the coach summarizes how ridiculous people are when it comes to heaping praise on Brosnan.
Brosnan is the best coach ever seen in High School. I’m not asking the question who has the longest good career. It’s who’s the best and Brosnan changed the High School game and smashed the bar. No one did what Newbury Park did in 6 years under Brosnan.
We all knew Brosnan wasn’t going to stay in High School for years on end. He doesn’t have the temperament for High School and he created something never seen before and maybe never seen again. He literally changed High School running.
I don’t personally don’t know Brosnan, Soles or Mostert but if you want to run fast Brosnan is the best choice hands down.
I’ve never heard anyone say he didn’t do a good job, but why does it have to be the greatest of all time? He was exceptionally lucky to have the Sahlmans and Youngs, but there are MANY coaches who have accomplished more over a much longer period of time. Mostart is obviously more accomplished, along with Soles. Had Brosnan had NXN contending teams a handful of times over the next 10 years, it would have been a more realistic argument, but really 3 historic years with 2 sets of brothers isn’t close to enough to put him in the very upper echelon of all time greats. By the way, Cantù didn’t run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching. The fact someone is trying to give him credit for what people ran when he wasn’t the coach summarizes how ridiculous people are when it comes to heaping praise on Brosnan.
Brosnan is the best coach ever seen in High School. I’m not asking the question who has the longest good career. It’s who’s the best and Brosnan changed the High School game and smashed the bar. No one did what Newbury Park did in 6 years under Brosnan.
We all knew Brosnan wasn’t going to stay in High School for years on end. He doesn’t have the temperament for High School and he created something never seen before and maybe never seen again. He literally changed High School running.
I don’t personally don’t know Brosnan, Soles or Mostert but if you want to run fast Brosnan is the best choice hands down.
Thanks for your input Sean. Now back to the job postings. Good luck in your search.
I’ve never heard anyone say he didn’t do a good job, but why does it have to be the greatest of all time? He was exceptionally lucky to have the Sahlmans and Youngs, but there are MANY coaches who have accomplished more over a much longer period of time. Mostart is obviously more accomplished, along with Soles. Had Brosnan had NXN contending teams a handful of times over the next 10 years, it would have been a more realistic argument, but really 3 historic years with 2 sets of brothers isn’t close to enough to put him in the very upper echelon of all time greats. By the way, Cantù didn’t run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching. The fact someone is trying to give him credit for what people ran when he wasn’t the coach summarizes how ridiculous people are when it comes to heaping praise on Brosnan.
Brosnan is the best coach ever seen in High School. I’m not asking the question who has the longest good career. It’s who’s the best and Brosnan changed the High School game and smashed the bar. No one did what Newbury Park did in 6 years under Brosnan.
We all knew Brosnan wasn’t going to stay in High School for years on end. He doesn’t have the temperament for High School and he created something never seen before and maybe never seen again. He literally changed High School running.
I don’t personally don’t know Brosnan, Soles or Mostert but if you want to run fast Brosnan is the best choice hands down.
I went to a clinic a couple years back listened to Timo Mostert and he just runs a lot of miles and sprints up a hill once a week. His team doubles 5 days a week at altitude and that’s about it. He was misusing terminology about training and the body. It sounded really bad. I actually thought he was kidding at first, but he was serious. He's yet to win a national XC championship despite multiple number one ranked teams. He gets his kids to believe but can’t get his kids ready when it counts. I’m sorry, but it’s true and he was hard to listen to.
Brosnan is the best coach ever seen in High School. I’m not asking the question who has the longest good career. It’s who’s the best and Brosnan changed the High School game and smashed the bar. No one did what Newbury Park did in 6 years under Brosnan.
We all knew Brosnan wasn’t going to stay in High School for years on end. He doesn’t have the temperament for High School and he created something never seen before and maybe never seen again. He literally changed High School running.
I don’t personally don’t know Brosnan, Soles or Mostert but if you want to run fast Brosnan is the best choice hands down.
I went to a clinic a couple years back listened to Timo Mostert and he just runs a lot of miles and sprints up a hill once a week. His team doubles 5 days a week at altitude and that’s about it. He was misusing terminology about training and the body. It sounded really bad. I actually thought he was kidding at first, but he was serious. He's yet to win a national XC championship despite multiple number one ranked teams. He gets his kids to believe but can’t get his kids ready when it counts. I’m sorry, but it’s true and he was hard to listen to.
Ughhh I wonder if American Fork will EVER win an NXN title. They have 4 runner-up finishes. Easily the best program that never won an NXN title before
I’ve never heard anyone say he didn’t do a good job, but why does it have to be the greatest of all time? He was exceptionally lucky to have the Sahlmans and Youngs, but there are MANY coaches who have accomplished more over a much longer period of time. Mostart is obviously more accomplished, along with Soles. Had Brosnan had NXN contending teams a handful of times over the next 10 years, it would have been a more realistic argument, but really 3 historic years with 2 sets of brothers isn’t close to enough to put him in the very upper echelon of all time greats. By the way, Cantù didn’t run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching. The fact someone is trying to give him credit for what people ran when he wasn’t the coach summarizes how ridiculous people are when it comes to heaping praise on Brosnan.
I didn't say he was the greatest of all time, just that he was a better coach that Mostert. In the same way you could argue Kipchoge is the greatest marathoner ever, but Kiptum was better and just didn't have time to rack up the accolades.
I'd argue that the fact that NP turned around so fast after the joined, and it fell apart so quickly once he left, was due to his coaching abilities. I don't think the Youngs or Sahlmans are Fernandez/Nuguse/Kessler level talents. Pretty far from it, in fact. I think there are dozens of Young/Sahlman level talents running track every year, and most of them just don't get the coaching to reach their potential. As evidence, we can compare L&L to Nico. In March of his freshman year, Nico was 4th at NCAA XC, and in April ran 13:24 to run a U20 record. As of March/April of their freshman year, L&L are pretty far off their HS PBs, much less scoring at NCAAs. Leo did recently run 7:54, but given that Lex ran 7:57 as a junior, and Leo was significantly better than him all year, I don't think it's too impressive. I think they still have the potential to win titles before they graduate, but if they truly were massive talents, I think they'd be running better.
And I'm glad you brought up Soles, because I'd like to use him as my 2nd piece of evidence. He took over Herriman a few years ago, and he's already pumped out an 8:43 guy, and had 3 other guys run sub-9 yesterday. I think he is proof that a coach can show up and turn a bad team into a national title contender within a few years. He did it a bit faster than Brosnan (admittedly coming into a better program, and having far more experience), but the numbers line up pretty well with NP if you take out the Youngs and Sahlmans. 8:43 Jenkins to 8:44 Aschbrenner, then 8:57/8:58/8:59 to 8:52/9:00/9:02. They also both have around 2k students. Tbf that's 6 years for Brosnan vs 3-4 for Soles, but Soles gets the altitude advantage, and Brosnan gets the unique disadvantage of not getting to count his top 5 best athletes.
I think if you put Brosnan or Soles at any school that's comparable in size and wealth to NP/Herriman, they'd be contending for national titles within 5 years. I'll also go ahead and predict that Soles is gonna have at least a couple guys run similar times to NP's best in the next 5 years.
Also Cantu technically did run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching, but it was Sean's wife. I took for granted that that meant Sean was writing workouts and stuff, but if you don't want to give him credit for that, that's reasonable. I don't think it's fair for you to say I'm ridiculous for giving it to him, though.
I’ve never heard anyone say he didn’t do a good job, but why does it have to be the greatest of all time? He was exceptionally lucky to have the Sahlmans and Youngs, but there are MANY coaches who have accomplished more over a much longer period of time. Mostart is obviously more accomplished, along with Soles. Had Brosnan had NXN contending teams a handful of times over the next 10 years, it would have been a more realistic argument, but really 3 historic years with 2 sets of brothers isn’t close to enough to put him in the very upper echelon of all time greats. By the way, Cantù didn’t run 8:57 while Brosnan was coaching. The fact someone is trying to give him credit for what people ran when he wasn’t the coach summarizes how ridiculous people are when it comes to heaping praise on Brosnan.
Brosnan is the best coach ever seen in High School. I’m not asking the question who has the longest good career. It’s who’s the best and Brosnan changed the High School game and smashed the bar. No one did what Newbury Park did in 6 years under Brosnan.
We all knew Brosnan wasn’t going to stay in High School for years on end. He doesn’t have the temperament for High School and he created something never seen before and maybe never seen again. He literally changed High School running.
I don’t personally don’t know Brosnan, Soles or Mostert but if you want to run fast Brosnan is the best choice hands down.
OK, this should be the most clear picture of reality.
NP under Brosnan in the first 2 years.
9th in State
Didn't qualify for state.
Then the Youngs and Sahlmans came.
Herriman under Soles in the first 2 years.
Podium at NXN
Winner of NXN
This is preceded by Soles having multiple podium teams and unprecedented dominance of the California State meet for a decade.
The Youngs and Sahlmans changed high school running and Brosan was along for the ride.