I like the idea of a big long-term goal, but try not to think of it from that perspective. It's too easy to say I need to run 6x 400m in 62 to hit 4:20, and then go race a workout to hit 62s.
Instead work on incremental improvements and consistency in the workouts. If you're 65-69, get all of those down to 65, etc. You gotta run 4x 65 to get 4:20, right? So that's a good place to start.
Target small stepping stones for race results (e.g., 4:45), then go from there.
What are your other PRs? What do you do on the other 6 days of the week?
PR List
200: high 27 (During workout)
400: 64 (during workout)
800: 2:25 (just repped a 2:26 in practice tho)
1600: 4:57
My week
Sunday: Day off
Monday: 6 miles easy
Tuesday: 2-3 miles worth of a workout usually
Wednesday: 7 miles easy
Thursday: Speed work workout (unless there's no race then hills plus 800s and 200s.)
Friday: Pre meet 3 miles easy (if no meet 6 miles easy)
Saturday: Meet (If no meet then speed work 150s + 200s or interval training)
You'll likely need two things: 1) More speed. 2) More steady/tempo/threshold work
I believe you can run significantly faster than 4:57 right now. But to start taking it to the next level, you'll need more speed and more baseline aerobic strength.
Perfect advice here -- I would also say that if you're doing 6 x 400 in 65-69 then you should be running faster than 4:57. Figure out what needs to happen there. Probably some more strength working/better in race pacing.
Don't be so focused on a number. You can't just go out and run 10 x 400 in 63-65 w./ 90s rest if you aren't in shape for it. Train hard & run workouts to current fitness.
you are either racing your workouts or due for a huge PR. if your 4:57 is a recent result, you're running too hard in practice. if it's from last spring, you might go run 4:3x this week
Thursday: Speed work workout (unless there's no race then hills plus 800s and 200s.)
Friday: Pre meet 3 miles easy (if no meet 6 miles easy)
Saturday: Meet (If no meet then speed work 150s + 200s or interval training)
You'll likely need two things: 1) More speed. 2) More steady/tempo/threshold work
I believe you can run significantly faster than 4:57 right now. But to start taking it to the next level, you'll need more speed and more baseline aerobic strength.
I don’t know about more speed, it looks like he has effectively 3 speed workouts per week. What he needs is 1) More mileage 2) More steady/tempo/threshold work. That schedule seems to be 25-30 mpw, with four consecutive days where he doesn’t run more than 3 miles continuously.
OP, you should respectfully approach your coach about wanting to run more. 40 mpw with 70 minute long runs is not a lot to ask—it’s almost like the minimum of solid high school distance training. Be careful with how you broach the subject though: you want to come off as eager to be the best you can be without seeming like you’re saying the coach’s training stinks.
I’ve seen high school kids doing 3 mile jogs for a “pre-meet” day multiple times a week, which is a shortsighted approach that ultimately leaves considerable fitness on the table. I can understand doing it before 2-3 key meets throughout the season if it works for you, but generally you should be able to run 5-6 miles easy (!) and a few strides without it impacting your performance the next day.
I'm at 4:57 so I'm not getting it yet but what's the workout times I should hit for 4:20? This is my team's most common workout.
6 by 400 (2 minute active recovery)
4 by 200 (jog back to 200m line)
I currently hit around 65-69 on 400s and 28-30 on 200s. What times do you think I would need for a 4:20?
Edit: I meant what workout times do I need?
OP - it is good to have a 4:20 goal, but you are asking the wrong question here. Forcing the workout times does not make anyone race faster, it just means they are racing their workouts and this will lead to stagnation & burnout.
What you want to ask is, what is the purpose of (6 x 400m r2) + (4 x 200m w/ jogback) ?
The answer is, primarily to help improve your current mile fitness. Key word being "current". Secondarily, to practice running the mile; which means you can't run the workout at a completely different pace and expect it to be effective.
If you are at 4:57, your current mile pace is about 74. So your workout pace should be slightly faster -- shoot for, say, 72. That's 4:48 pace and would be a nice PR for you. When you run 4:48, go for 70 on those 400m repeats, and so forth.
The 4 x 200m at the end is to practice pushing hard when tired, and also to get a little decent turnover. Ask your coach if these are also intended to be all-out sprints (depends on how the week is structured and how many other hard days there are), I would guess probably not. Most likely these should be at your current 800m pace.
This workout is just one piece of the puzzle. You also need plenty of aerobic development. For example, at one point in college I could run 40-sec 300m repeats and 54-sec 400m repeats smoothly with no problem. But I couldn't run sub-1:50 800m because my aerobic development was not there.
I don’t know about more speed, it looks like he has effectively 3 speed workouts per week. What he needs is 1) More mileage 2) More steady/tempo/threshold work. That schedule seems to be 25-30 mpw, with four consecutive days where he doesn’t run more than 3 miles continuously.
When I say speed, I mean speed. 400s at mile pace are not speed—that's some kind of aerobic and anaerobic endurance. Speed is developing top end velocity.
The vast majority of 4:20 milers can run faster than 27. Probably rolling a 25 mid to high is the average for a 4:20 runner.
I agree with everything else. More miles, more tempo. Adding in something like plyo + 4x50m once a week will go a long way in developing 200/400/800 times in a very low-stress way.
You'll likely need two things: 1) More speed. 2) More steady/tempo/threshold work
I believe you can run significantly faster than 4:57 right now. But to start taking it to the next level, you'll need more speed and more baseline aerobic strength.
I don’t know about more speed, it looks like he has effectively 3 speed workouts per week. What he needs is 1) More mileage 2) More steady/tempo/threshold work. That schedule seems to be 25-30 mpw, with four consecutive days where he doesn’t run more than 3 miles continuously.
OP, you should respectfully approach your coach about wanting to run more. 40 mpw with 70 minute long runs is not a lot to ask—it’s almost like the minimum of solid high school distance training. Be careful with how you broach the subject though: you want to come off as eager to be the best you can be without seeming like you’re saying the coach’s training stinks.
I’ve seen high school kids doing 3 mile jogs for a “pre-meet” day multiple times a week, which is a shortsighted approach that ultimately leaves considerable fitness on the table. I can understand doing it before 2-3 key meets throughout the season if it works for you, but generally you should be able to run 5-6 miles easy (!) and a few strides without it impacting your performance the next day.
The OP doesn’t need the coach’s approval to start doing some morning runs and he doesn’t even need to ask.
Until he builds up a few months of decent mileage, it’s premature to assess his ability to run a 4:20 in the future.
Top coaches would kick a kid off of the team if they are doing additional workouts. It causes injuries and makes kids slower because they are not fully prepared for workouts.
Top coaches would kick a kid off of the team if they are doing additional workouts. It causes injuries and makes kids slower because they are not fully prepared for workouts.
They would kick a guy off of the team for wanting to run more than 20 mpw? That is one bad coach. If you had a talented kid on such a coach’s team, would you be fine with his chances of a scholarship being flushed down the toilet?
Increasing his mileage gradually from 20 mpw to 40-50 is not going to cause injuries and it’s certainly not going to make anyone run more slowly.
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