I'm doing 90ish miles a week, my training up until now has been largely fartleks, with some sporadic track stuff mixed in. Never been a burner, but my mile/400 ability is severely lacking rn compared to where I need it to be to run a good 10k. How do I return to that kind of form? Start mixing in a lot more intervals? Can I build speed with just short duration fartleks?
I will certainly be doing a lot of strides - I've got just over a month to prepare, this would be the race I'm peaking for.
introduce a bunch of repeat workouts with each rep no longer than 800m.
I am guessing better off keeping the mileage up til 2 weeks before the race. The problem with fartlek is that we have no clue what it means. Dude could be soibg something 25x(10k pace)/ 60s rest (standard Kenyan fartlek) and be set to race a good 10k. Or maybe just doing like 5:00 or hard running and calling it a workout.
1-2-3-4-5-4-3-2-1 ladders w min off, stuff like that. I just lose my mind sometimes working out alone on a track, I find getting out on roads or grass to be much easier to get through but if the stimulus is much lower I’d just have to get over it
introduce a bunch of repeat workouts with each rep no longer than 800m.
I am guessing better off keeping the mileage up til 2 weeks before the race. The problem with fartlek is that we have no clue what it means. Dude could be soibg something 25x(10k pace)/ 60s rest (standard Kenyan fartlek) and be set to race a good 10k. Or maybe just doing like 5:00 or hard running and calling it a workout.
The general recommendation to decrease mileage is because now that the race is 1 month out, OP should definitely be focusing more on quality. 90 mpw is a lot of volume and it's what OP is handling with minimal quality sessions, so it stands to reason that they should decrease somewhat. I don't agree with 60 mpw but probably more like 75 mpw with 2 workouts per week.
1 month is not all that much time. OP will basically have 4-6 workouts from which they'll reap strong adaptations. Those workouts should encompass threshold, CV intervals, and VO2max intervals. I would go with threshold intervals once/week every week, CV intervals (with short jog periods for rest, about 3:1 work:rest) once/week for the first 2 weeks, (CV is the pace you can sustain for ~30-35 mins, or 10k pace for a lot of runners), and then use the last 2 weeks for VO2max intervals to sharpen. You could also forego CV intervals and just do VO2 max intervals but it will be harder on your body.
Volume taper should be about 10-14 days out. Dropping from 75 to about 68 mpw. VO2max intervals during the shortly before and during the taper period should be done exclusively on the track, not on hills.
Ideally in the future OP starts focusing on quality further out
I am guessing better off keeping the mileage up til 2 weeks before the race. The problem with fartlek is that we have no clue what it means. Dude could be soibg something 25x(10k pace)/ 60s rest (standard Kenyan fartlek) and be set to race a good 10k. Or maybe just doing like 5:00 or hard running and calling it a workout.
The general recommendation to decrease mileage is because now that the race is 1 month out, OP should definitely be focusing more on quality. 90 mpw is a lot of volume and it's what OP is handling with minimal quality sessions, so it stands to reason that they should decrease somewhat. I don't agree with 60 mpw but probably more like 75 mpw with 2 workouts per week.
1 month is not all that much time. OP will basically have 4-6 workouts from which they'll reap strong adaptations. Those workouts should encompass threshold, CV intervals, and VO2max intervals. I would go with threshold intervals once/week every week, CV intervals (with short jog periods for rest, about 3:1 work:rest) once/week for the first 2 weeks, (CV is the pace you can sustain for ~30-35 mins, or 10k pace for a lot of runners), and then use the last 2 weeks for VO2max intervals to sharpen. You could also forego CV intervals and just do VO2 max intervals but it will be harder on your body.
Volume taper should be about 10-14 days out. Dropping from 75 to about 68 mpw. VO2max intervals during the shortly before and during the taper period should be done exclusively on the track, not on hills.
Ideally in the future OP starts focusing on quality further out
Dude has been doing vo2/cv type workouts through the built up. I don’t expect some magic from adding more. For 10ks the aerobic benefits of mileage tend to outweigh doing more fast stuff. You just don’t need much quality. Maybe a 5k race is the middle to get the feel of racing.
High-volume aerobic training with a bunch of fartlek work already is good 10k training. An abrupt shift to a bunch of hard interval work is most likely to leave you overcooked and worse off for the 10k than your current program.
Can you describe more about what type of sessions (including paces) you've been doing and what the typical weekly structure is? Recent race results and realistic goal time for this 10k? What actually is your current mile ability? The 10k is not a particularly "speed-limited" challenge until you're looking at pretty fast target times.
The strides are definitely a good idea just to develop a sort of neuromuscular comfort with faster running so you can be relaxed during the race. In terms of 10k specific workouts, I would just slightly modify your fartleks to be more specific. That's why any advice here is entirely dependent on what you are currently doing. 1 month isn't a ton of time so you just want to slightly optimize what you already have, not overhaul the whole program.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
The general recommendation to decrease mileage is because now that the race is 1 month out, OP should definitely be focusing more on quality. 90 mpw is a lot of volume and it's what OP is handling with minimal quality sessions, so it stands to reason that they should decrease somewhat. I don't agree with 60 mpw but probably more like 75 mpw with 2 workouts per week.
1 month is not all that much time. OP will basically have 4-6 workouts from which they'll reap strong adaptations. Those workouts should encompass threshold, CV intervals, and VO2max intervals. I would go with threshold intervals once/week every week, CV intervals (with short jog periods for rest, about 3:1 work:rest) once/week for the first 2 weeks, (CV is the pace you can sustain for ~30-35 mins, or 10k pace for a lot of runners), and then use the last 2 weeks for VO2max intervals to sharpen. You could also forego CV intervals and just do VO2 max intervals but it will be harder on your body.
Volume taper should be about 10-14 days out. Dropping from 75 to about 68 mpw. VO2max intervals during the shortly before and during the taper period should be done exclusively on the track, not on hills.
Ideally in the future OP starts focusing on quality further out
Dude has been doing vo2/cv type workouts through the built up. I don’t expect some magic from adding more. For 10ks the aerobic benefits of mileage tend to outweigh doing more fast stuff. You just don’t need much quality. Maybe a 5k race is the middle to get the feel of racing.
So do you think Nico Young would have done as well as he did at the The Ten without those killer workouts we saw posted up in the weeks leading up to NCAAs?
You need to touch on paces that are slower than and faster than 10k pace to run a good 10k. If OP can handle 90 mpw plus quality then definitely should stick with the higher volume until tapering time but it sounded to me like they were just doing some casual fartlek training and the occasional half-hearted track stuff.
Yeah, I have hardly any idea of what I’m talking about…. But what if he does some workouts targeted at mile pace?
Some sort of mile-paced work is going to be beneficial. What exactly that should look like I have no clue without knowing specific details of their program and their current ability. It could be that just some glorified strides or something like 5x200m @ mile pace tacked onto the end of fartlek/threshold workout would do them a lot of good.
With the race only being ~1 month out my main concern is not throwing too much new stress at the body. For most people 90mpw with some decent fartleks is already very close to whatever 10k ability they can maximize in the near term so #1 priority is just not messing that up!
Dude has been doing vo2/cv type workouts through the built up. I don’t expect some magic from adding more. For 10ks the aerobic benefits of mileage tend to outweigh doing more fast stuff. You just don’t need much quality. Maybe a 5k race is the middle to get the feel of racing.
So do you think Nico Young would have done as well as he did at the The Ten without those killer workouts we saw posted up in the weeks leading up to NCAAs?
You need to touch on paces that are slower than and faster than 10k pace to run a good 10k. If OP can handle 90 mpw plus quality then definitely should stick with the higher volume until tapering time but it sounded to me like they were just doing some casual fartlek training and the occasional half-hearted track stuff.
So you think Nico just started doing those workouts a few weeks before the big 10k? Seems like a pretty stupid take given all the workout videos that he has posted. In case you don’t know, our OP isn’t Nico. He hasn’t been building towards doing hard workouts over 6 months. Dropping the volume and upping the intensity is far more likely to leave him stale/injured instead of in peak form.
Doing a workouts of 5/10k paced segments and a few strides(probably 1500m) isn’t perfect but it is decent enough for 10k. Want to switch the workouts to the track for more precision? If you want.
Was trying to be somewhat non-specific, bc I’d be embarrassed if I was recognized, but I don’t think my buddies are on LR all that much. I just ran a PR of 67 low in the half last weekend, fast course and good competition (was pleasantly surprised - this is considerably better than my college times, although I knew I was a strength-based runner). If I had to guess, I could run like 14:55 on the track right now, but could run no faster than like a 57 all out.
My training has been a bit all of over the place, when I first started returning to fitness in January it was pretty much exclusively 3 on/ 1 off, 5 on 2 off and stuff, I’d hop in some track stuff with friends once a week or so and while most of it didn’t feel too challenging (mile repeats at 5:20 or so, 400 repeats at ~70), I’m sure it was helpful. I have gotten back a very tiny bit of speed, I can at least bang out a few 28s, but definitely feel very weak in that area compared to HS and would not at all bet on myself in a kick. I feel very comfortable running 5:15s or so for a long time but want 4:40s and 4:50s to feel somewhat manageable - I wouldn’t call them a system shock rn, but they definitely are far from comfortable.
Idk if the best way to do this is just to hit a bunch of 400s at like mid 60s or what.
Eventually, if I keep wanting to take it somewhat seriously, I will get a coach (as I write my own workouts but oftentimes struggle to hold myself accountable), but want to round out this training cycle on my own. I also find a lot of value in just jumping in friends’ workouts, I find that that puts far less pressure on me (and I was kind of a classic “head case” in college, lot of performance anxiety). I’m sure this is too much detail, but there are the raw materials!
Was trying to be somewhat non-specific, bc I’d be embarrassed if I was recognized, but I don’t think my buddies are on LR all that much. I just ran a PR of 67 low in the half last weekend, fast course and good competition (was pleasantly surprised - this is considerably better than my college times, although I knew I was a strength-based runner). If I had to guess, I could run like 14:55 on the track right now, but could run no faster than like a 57 all out.
My training has been a bit all of over the place, when I first started returning to fitness in January it was pretty much exclusively 3 on/ 1 off, 5 on 2 off and stuff, I’d hop in some track stuff with friends once a week or so and while most of it didn’t feel too challenging (mile repeats at 5:20 or so, 400 repeats at ~70), I’m sure it was helpful. I have gotten back a very tiny bit of speed, I can at least bang out a few 28s, but definitely feel very weak in that area compared to HS and would not at all bet on myself in a kick. I feel very comfortable running 5:15s or so for a long time but want 4:40s and 4:50s to feel somewhat manageable - I wouldn’t call them a system shock rn, but they definitely are far from comfortable.
Idk if the best way to do this is just to hit a bunch of 400s at like mid 60s or what.
Based on this information your realistic target time is ~30:30 +/- 15s.
I'd say do two workouts a week, one as something race-specific for the 10k/5k and one as some sort of tempo combo with a large dose of pretty chill threshold work plus a small dose of some mile effort work at the end. If hammering out a bunch of 400s at mid-60s pace is what it takes to give you confidence it's not the worst thing to do, but it's not the best thing to do IMO unless you have already done some intermediate workouts that bridge the gap to that type of session -it's a big shock and isn't all that specific to 10k demands. We think of the 10k as a track event so we often want to hammer out a lot of fast-track work in preparation, but at a certain point that speed and anaerobic capacity doesn't really do much for us because if we go too deep into anaerobic territory too early in the 10k race we're gonna be toast anyways.
Mostly I'd say just refine your current fitness with workouts of a similar structure to what you've already been doing but slightly more specific to the 10k -get somewhat familiar and comfortable at 10k pace.
Some race-specific workout examples, similar to the 3min or 5min fartleks you've already been doing but a little faster and with more rest:
8-10x1000m @ 10k pace /1:30-2:00 rest
5x1600m @ 10k pace /2:30-3:00 rest, 1x1000m @ 5k pace
6x5min threshold /60-75s rest, 5min rest, 5x200 @ mile pace /easy jog back recovery
10x3min threshold /45-60s rest, 5min rest, 5x200 @ mile /easy jog back
All pretty boring simple stuff but that's the whole point.
The day before each workout is a good place to slot in some earnest strides (8-10x 100m) which will help with the neuromuscular aspect of speed. Ideally would do this after a short afternoon double with some drills so that you are properly warmed up and can comfortably get down to faster-than-mile effort.
Not sure how comfortable you are at 90mpw, but I'd say keep overall volume high the next two weeks, cut back to whatever a comfortable "baseline" volume is the week ahead of race week (maybe ~70mpw?), and then just do whatever will have you feeling fresh on race week.
You may not get 4:40-4:50 mile pace to feel particularly comfortable in ~1 month, that's probably a job for another training cycle and mostly aerobic work.