Roping in the haters? Mission Accomplished with starting this thread!
I used to think this event was stupid until I realized it's not a race or run. It's basically just an ultra adventure survival run/hike.
That is the big issue. It stress a bunch of skills that are far different than most of us consider racing as some of the obstacles to completion feel a bit more random than skill based.
i mean i don't think of orienteering and stuff as "random skills" - one of the guys who finished is a master orienteer. there is certainly "luck" with the weather as someone said above - the year of the barkley doc where 3 ppl finished the weather was great too. but that's sort of how the world works, no? some years the weather will be bad, others it will be good. the race goes on either way.
Roping in the haters? Mission Accomplished with starting this thread!
I used to think this event was stupid until I realized it's not a race or run. It's basically just an ultra adventure survival run/hike.
That is the big issue. It stress a bunch of skills that are far different than most of us consider racing as some of the obstacles to completion feel a bit more random than skill based.
It differs from a race in that no one really cares who finishes first, it's just about finishing at all. That said, all racing is random to a degree. The people who turned up to the London Marathon start line in 2018 spent the rest of the year cursing their luck. Ryan Hall has the weather gods to thank for his 2:04, and Des and Yuki have WMM wins because hey managed the randomness better than everyone else.
That is the big issue. It stress a bunch of skills that are far different than most of us consider racing as some of the obstacles to completion feel a bit more random than skill based.
...Kinda like what 1:52 800 meter athletes think about you barely running a 3 hour marathon
The race, as it normally is, likely is too hard for women. It was obviously easier this year, given the number of finishers -- and likely made easier on purpose for marketing purposes. At least Laz now has more publicity for him and this pointless event because, oh my gosh, a woman finisher! Who cares.
At the time of writing an article about Jasmin Paris completing the Barkley Marathons is #1 on the top ten 'most read' list on the BBC News website. It's ahead of Kate's cancer diagnosis in #2. Most of the time there are no sports stories of any type on the list, running stories almost never feature, though the death of Kelvin Kiptum was another rare exception.
The race, as it normally is, likely is too hard for women. It was obviously easier this year, given the number of finishers -- and likely made easier on purpose for marketing purposes. At least Laz now has more publicity for him and this pointless event because, oh my gosh, a woman finisher! Who cares.
“Made it easier” = got the weather to play along?
Yeah, sometimes it’s easier and harder, and if you want people to keep trying, you think you’ll get a good field year in and year out if you maniacally try to make it as hard as possible and go 8 years between finishers? Even if you could say his MO used to be closer to that, was that even the real goal back in 2010, before the documentary?
Jared was a beneficiary of some help in his first finish. Isn’t it possible that when you have more info sharing, more in-course partnering, and people coming in more prepared that there will be more finishers, even if the course construction remains as challenging?
I’m not saying that’s necessarily the cause, but you seem to ignore its possibility just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Look at the training and recent accomplishments of some people who didn’t even complete a fun run this year. Sure, this year’s race had the highest number of fun run finishers and the highest number of overall finishers, but that doesn’t make it downright easy.
and I wouldn’t doubt that at least part of Laz likes some of the publicity not least because it increases the number of high-quality participants showing up at his races, which creates the kind of race environment and community. It seems like he really enjoys. But do you think he’s really going for this to be all about him, or do you think he’s really constructing the brand as a big money making scheme? i’d love to see you detail how that’s what’s going on.
The dude’s a retired accountant and a guy who spent a lot of years running on roads and trails by himself. I won’t discount the possibility the person like that could turn into someone starving for attention, but it strikes me as unlikely.
But now I’ve been roped into talking about Laz, when my real take on the race is a big kudos to all the finishers, especially Jasmin Paris — whom I consider worthy of the praise sh’s been getting for this.
But maybe you have such a long list of achievements yourself that you feel empowered to slight others.
The race, as it normally is, likely is too hard for women. It was obviously easier this year, given the number of finishers -- and likely made easier on purpose for marketing purposes. At least Laz now has more publicity for him and this pointless event because, oh my gosh, a woman finisher! Who cares.
This might be, quite honestly, the worst take in this entire thread.
You had 2 finishers who had multiple finishes each, both finished in over 59 hours, and you come in talking about the race and course being easier this year. The ONE thing that made the course "easier" was the weather. That's the only thing easier.
It's an incredible performance by Jasmine. Quite honestly she's probably the only female in the world right now who would complete Barkley. Maybe Courtney Dewaulter but Jasmine has the multi day mountain running/fell running/hiking/horrible weather experience over her.
That is the big issue. It stress a bunch of skills that are far different than most of us consider racing as some of the obstacles to completion feel a bit more random than skill based.
i mean i don't think of orienteering and stuff as "random skills" - one of the guys who finished is a master orienteer. there is certainly "luck" with the weather as someone said above - the year of the barkley doc where 3 ppl finished the weather was great too. but that's sort of how the world works, no? some years the weather will be bad, others it will be good. the race goes on either way.
The weather is the same for everyone so that isn’t luck. Finding the books is partly skill but also a bit random. The crazy entry requirements that are like a 9 year olds idea of humor. There isn’t anything wrong with any of that. It just means it is hard to take seriously as a competitive athletic event versus a fun event like a color run…
i mean i don't think of orienteering and stuff as "random skills" - one of the guys who finished is a master orienteer. there is certainly "luck" with the weather as someone said above - the year of the barkley doc where 3 ppl finished the weather was great too. but that's sort of how the world works, no? some years the weather will be bad, others it will be good. the race goes on either way.
The weather is the same for everyone so that isn’t luck. Finding the books is partly skill but also a bit random. The crazy entry requirements that are like a 9 year olds idea of humor. There isn’t anything wrong with any of that. It just means it is hard to take seriously as a competitive athletic event versus a fun event like a color run…
The beauty of the Barkleys is that it has aspects of a color run while simultaneously being one of the most difficult ultramarathon races to complete. Sure, it's not really a "running" event as much as it is a competitive orienteering hike, but so what? There are plenty of running events. I don't know of any other races like it, though I imagine there are similar events held elsewhere. I learned about the race through the documentary, which was awesome. They picked the perfect year to film because John's story was so inspiring. It made me want to get up the next day and put myself through as much pain as possible, which to me captures the spirit of our sport. There's lots of hate for Laz because he purposefully plays the villain. He loves being a heel.
The race, as it normally is, likely is too hard for women. It was obviously easier this year, given the number of finishers -- and likely made easier on purpose for marketing purposes. At least Laz now has more publicity for him and this pointless event because, oh my gosh, a woman finisher! Who cares.
What makes this event pointless and whatever event you do not?
As for Laz and publicity that you and other haters complain about, is he really more of a publicity hound than whatever female influencer you're currently wacking it to, er, complaining about on here?
The race, as it normally is, likely is too hard for women. It was obviously easier this year, given the number of finishers -- and likely made easier on purpose for marketing purposes. At least Laz now has more publicity for him and this pointless event because, oh my gosh, a woman finisher! Who cares.
“Made it easier” = got the weather to play along?
Yeah, sometimes it’s easier and harder, and if you want people to keep trying, you think you’ll get a good field year in and year out if you maniacally try to make it as hard as possible and go 8 years between finishers? Even if you could say his MO used to be closer to that, was that even the real goal back in 2010, before the documentary?
Jared was a beneficiary of some help in his first finish. Isn’t it possible that when you have more info sharing, more in-course partnering, and people coming in more prepared that there will be more finishers, even if the course construction remains as challenging?
I’m not saying that’s necessarily the cause, but you seem to ignore its possibility just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Look at the training and recent accomplishments of some people who didn’t even complete a fun run this year. Sure, this year’s race had the highest number of fun run finishers and the highest number of overall finishers, but that doesn’t make it downright easy.
and I wouldn’t doubt that at least part of Laz likes some of the publicity not least because it increases the number of high-quality participants showing up at his races, which creates the kind of race environment and community. It seems like he really enjoys. But do you think he’s really going for this to be all about him, or do you think he’s really constructing the brand as a big money making scheme? i’d love to see you detail how that’s what’s going on.
The dude’s a retired accountant and a guy who spent a lot of years running on roads and trails by himself. I won’t discount the possibility the person like that could turn into someone starving for attention, but it strikes me as unlikely.
But now I’ve been roped into talking about Laz, when my real take on the race is a big kudos to all the finishers, especially Jasmin Paris — whom I consider worthy of the praise sh’s been getting for this.
But maybe you have such a long list of achievements yourself that you feel empowered to slight others.
Apparently there's a new section that made it harder.
The weather is the same for everyone so that isn’t luck. Finding the books is partly skill but also a bit random. The crazy entry requirements that are like a 9 year olds idea of humor. There isn’t anything wrong with any of that. It just means it is hard to take seriously as a competitive athletic event versus a fun event like a color run…
Is this Sage? Finding the books is only random for people with inadequate orienteering skills. There's a huge difference in navigational skill between a novice orienteer vs. an elite orienteer, and it takes a ton of skill development to become an elite orienteer. An elite orienteer always knows where they are on a map.
It's obvious for anyone who is a good runner who has gone to their local orienteering club's meets and gotten their asses kicked consistently (not at all randomly) by huge margins by good orienteers. It took me years of a couple dozen meets per year and also directing an orienteering meet a year myself before I was finally really competitive when I started. And I was the fastest runner doing them locally. It's all skill.
There was a recent discussion on attackpoint, an orienteering site, about whether or not orienteering has the highest percentage of competitors who have PhDs. It wasn't conclusive, but most thought probably. It's a thinking person's sport.