If you are unable to justify Nico Young being better than Henry Rono (very easy for someone who is not delusional), then why should I trust your suggestion that you can justify that someone else will be better.
There's this kid from Utah that just ran 13:38, he's going to break 13 and 27 within the next few years. At the age of 20, he will have faster PRs than Henry Rono did in his entire lifetime (mile, 5k, 10k). What will he have to do to be better than Rono?
Because apparently being 30 seconds faster than him isn't enough and closing the last mile of your NCAA championship 5k faster than Rono's mile PR isn't enough.
Will you at least recognize that the current times are being run under completely different conditions?
A 13:38 today isn't the same thing as a 13:38 in 1978?
If you're unable to admit to that, then you aren't operating in reality.
It’s actually shocking to me how few people have brought up that Rono was 26 in 1978, whereas Nico is 21. Obviously shoes make a difference in the other direction, but we are talking about a grown man at 26 vs someone still developing at 21. There are very few runners that peak at 21, and we are almost certainly going to see a faster version of Nico at 25 or 26 than we see today.
I’m as guilty as anyone else of thinking my glory days were the best for all sports, but it’s not necessarily true if you think of it objectively. How can we make jokes about BYU’s 32 year old freshmen and then turn around and deify Rono as an NCAA athlete when he was far older than almost anyone else who competes at that level?
Totally agree. Nico is faster.
I don’t get why a quality poster like HRE is arguing this point?
The other point is Henry was a grown man and Nico is a college kid.
It’s actually shocking to me how few people have brought up that Rono was 26 in 1978, whereas Nico is 21. Obviously shoes make a difference in the other direction, but we are talking about a grown man at 26 vs someone still developing at 21. There are very few runners that peak at 21, and we are almost certainly going to see a faster version of Nico at 25 or 26 than we see today.
I’m as guilty as anyone else of thinking my glory days were the best for all sports, but it’s not necessarily true if you think of it objectively. How can we make jokes about BYU’s 32 year old freshmen and then turn around and deify Rono as an NCAA athlete when he was far older than almost anyone else who competes at that level?
Totally agree. Nico is faster.
I don’t get why a quality poster like HRE is arguing this point?
The other point is Henry was a grown man and Nico is a college kid.
Thanks for the quality poster thing. But where have I argued that Young is not faster than Rono? Of course he is. My argument is that "faster" does not automatically mean "better."
It’s actually shocking to me how few people have brought up that Rono was 26 in 1978, whereas Nico is 21. Obviously shoes make a difference in the other direction, but we are talking about a grown man at 26 vs someone still developing at 21. There are very few runners that peak at 21, and we are almost certainly going to see a faster version of Nico at 25 or 26 than we see today.
I’m as guilty as anyone else of thinking my glory days were the best for all sports, but it’s not necessarily true if you think of it objectively. How can we make jokes about BYU’s 32 year old freshmen and then turn around and deify Rono as an NCAA athlete when he was far older than almost anyone else who competes at that level?
Totally agree. Nico is faster.
I don’t get why a quality poster like HRE is arguing this point?
The other point is Henry was a grown man and Nico is a college kid.
Don’t worry - 30 years from now, nike will roll out some new clown tech and high-schoolers will start running faster than Nico. It will be your turn to pull your teeth out in frustration. Cheat shoes are pretty much legalized PEDs. As if we don’t already have enough of that floating around already.
He has better times across the border. Would you agree he is/was better than Rono?
Nope. I’m a big Nico fan, but Nico hasn’t run faster than 7:32.1 in the 3000m and he definitely hasn’t run faster than 8:05.4 in the steeplechase. So he not faster across the board.
If Nico can go out and set the 3k , 5k 10k and steeplechase world records this year by himself and set two of those records in college dual meets in crappy weather then you may be correct.
Faster is better bro... That's the reason we time races...
So if you met two runners, one with a PR of 3:50 in the mile and three medals at the WC/OG level, and another runner with a 3:49 PR set in a glorified pre-season time trial where he finished in 6th place, which runner do you think was "better"?
Honestly I think Young could’ve ran similar times to Henry if he was transported back in time, sub 13:10 in the 5k and such.
I also think Rono would be able to break 13 today, and if he could’ve trained like a modern pro maybe we’d see a 12:40s Rono. I’m a believer That Henry was clean, so I honestly wonder if he would’ve been a solid 12:40s guy with no world records in our modern era.
end of the day I’m sure post race Henry and Nico could’ve crushed a few beers and had a fun time post race, they would’ve welcomed the competition from one another.
Don't know? All you can say is he was one of the best in his era, an all time great, just like Cheptegei.
Nobody says that about Nico Young.
I think that is the way to frame this question. Generally speaking, we need to look at "eras" in sport because the changes make direct comparison impossible.
The Pre-War Era - Pre-1945 = Paavo Nurmi won 93 gold medals but his competition was made up mostly the sons of noblemen who did "brisk walking" as their main form of training; he was also the first man to break 15 for 5000m (making him almost as fast as Parker Valby).
The Post-War Era - 1945-1968 = Emil Zatopek won 66 gold medals; 5000m PR was 13:57 but he ran it on a wet cinder track in combat boots; Also Peter Snell who ran 1:44 for 800m in tennis shoes on a irregularly shaped grass track in New Zealand during the half-time of a cricket match which he also played in.
The Running Boom Era - 1968-1984 = Lasse Virén won 28 gold medals and had to do all his blood doping on his own without even the slightest support from the government like the East Germans and Russians had; Henry Rono had GOAT potential and he set 3 world records! They were set within an historic single 19 day span during 1978, a time when he was not sober for a single waking minute.
The Worst Era in American Running - 1988-2004 = Bob Kennedy and Todd Williams were literally the only two Americans who still participated in the sport of "running" at this time. They also ran up to 70 miles a week, a record for this era. Good news for humanity though, Geb and Tergat ran sub-27! It was like an impossible barrier had been broken! The sport was suddenly reborn!
The Modern Era 2004-2020 = It was all Rupp. Rupp was the best with the best times and the most medals. But you never liked him and you really never liked Salazar, so you try to act like Meb was better than he really was. And even though Centro was everything Rupp wasn't, you never liked him either. The rest of humanity just watched Bekele and Kipchoge go crazy. Then we found out Kipchoge had some "special shoes."
The Super-Shoe Era 2020-24 = Everyone who is a runner was suddenly a sub-4 minute miler. Everyone is the best ever. A lady we'd never heard of even ran 2:11 in the marathon. Random, unknown HS boys run 13:38 for 5000m. You ran a sub-4 mile in practice one day.
The Future - 2025-2080 = Nico Young
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Don't know? All you can say is he was one of the best in his era, an all time great, just like Cheptegei.
Nobody says that about Nico Young.
I think that is the way to frame this question. Generally speaking, we need to look at "eras" in sport because the changes make direct comparison impossible.
The Pre-War Era - Pre-1945 = Paavo Nurmi won 93 gold medals but his competition was made up mostly the sons of noblemen who did "brisk walking" as their main form of training; he was also the first man to break 15 for 5000m (making him almost as fast as Parker Valby).
The Post-War Era - 1945-1968 = Emil Zatopek won 66 gold medals; 5000m PR was 13:57 but he ran it on a wet cinder track in combat boots; Also Peter Snell who ran 1:44 for 800m in tennis shoes on a irregularly shaped grass track in New Zealand during the half-time of a cricket match which he also played in.
The Running Boom Era - 1968-1984 = Lasse Virén won 28 gold medals and had to do all his blood doping on his own without even the slightest support from the government like the East Germans and Russians had; Henry Rono had GOAT potential and he set 3 world records! They were set within an historic single 19 day span during 1978, a time when he was not sober for a single waking minute.
The Worst Era in American Running - 1988-2004 = Bob Kennedy and Todd Williams were literally the only two Americans who still participated in the sport of "running" at this time. They also ran up to 70 miles a week, a record for this era. Good news for humanity though, Geb and Tergat ran sub-27! It was like an impossible barrier had been broken! The sport was suddenly reborn!
The Modern Era 2004-2020 = It was all Rupp. Rupp was the best with the best times and the most medals. But you never liked him and you really never liked Salazar, so you try to act like Meb was better than he really was. And even though Centro was everything Rupp wasn't, you never liked him either. The rest of humanity just watched Bekele and Kipchoge go crazy. Then we found out Kipchoge had some "special shoes."
The Super-Shoe Era 2020-24 = Everyone who is a runner was suddenly a sub-4 minute miler. Everyone is the best ever. A lady we'd never heard of even ran 2:11 in the marathon. Random, unknown HS boys run 13:38 for 5000m. You ran a sub-4 mile in practice one day.
The Future - 2025-2080 = Nico Young
I know the 2025-80 bit is partially a joke but there are runners on the world-level that are eons ahead of nico. I give it a couple years, a few more tweaks to the shoes, and some additional ‘help’ in the pharmaceutical area and guys will be consistently dipping under 26. By that point distance running will have reached full-on circus mode. I hear mlb is in talks to allow corked bats v
One thing some of you rookies cannot grasp is that, in addition to the faster shoes and tracks, Henry could not get paced to a world record because there wasn’t anyone around to do it. Nico has run great with his 12:57 and 26:52 but he was paced the entire race both times.
Pacers weren't even allowed back then- if they started by pacing they had to finish the race.
Those guys back in the day ran their records on their own.
Call me crazy., but I think Henry could've hanged with the like of Ingebrigtsen, Cheptegai, had he competed in this era with his supreme talent, though he might need to be much more disciplined.
I don’t get why a quality poster like HRE is arguing this point?
The other point is Henry was a grown man and Nico is a college kid.
Thanks for the quality poster thing. But where have I argued that Young is not faster than Rono? Of course he is. My argument is that "faster" does not automatically mean "better."
Hmm, I stand corrected. I'll have to think about "faster vs better"