A lot of Pete "Bashing" going on here. Pete coached DB to a WR (600), AR-indoor (800), AR-outdoor (800), and a World Championship (800). What am I missing here? Yes, DB got injured and tried to train through it and consequently only made things worse. DB is a professional athlete who with his coach made a conscious decision to train and compete while not 100%. The decision by both was made in good faith, and clearly they had more information as to the risks involved. Neither are to be blamed individually, both are to share in the results. If DB wanted to train through his injuries and Pete said no and DB said yes what is Pete to do? Leave DB and say good luck dude you're on your own? If I were Pete I would support DB anyway I can, and do everything possible to get him back on the track if possible.
I call BS that Julian coached him to those records and title. The story that he was coached by Julian all along was simply to distance Brazier from the downfall of Salazar. Why was it that Brazier entire career to that point we heard nothing of him being coached by Julian then all of a sudden. So if Julian was in coaching him from the start how is it that he was working magic for all that time and then all of a sudden everything went wrong and that cycle of injury has gone on for a few seasons now. Salazar coached Brazier to all those records and title
Now you're just throwing mud against the wall. Didn't Pete work along Salazar at NOP? Wouldn't you think they'd be on the same page as to what Donovan was doing? Unless DB comes out as says "Pete was never my coach", then you have something to stand on. With regard to your "working magic" comment, yeah injuries happen fast and sometimes come out of nowhere and can set off a chain of injuries if not addressed early enough.
Unless you have credible proof of Pete not ever coaching DB you're just talking out of your A**.
Julian coached Donovan and the "structure" of how NOP was run was pretty clear right? Salazar had a "select" group - the superstars or how should I put this, the ones who were clearly willing to do whatever, ahem, it took to stand on the podium at the Olympics and Julian had the "best of the rest" which included Brazier at the time (because he had missed Rio and wasn't yet the world champion Donovan Brazier that we eventually saw).
Regarding your earlier point about it being possible Brazier just did what he wanted - possibly against the advice of Julian and "what should Pete have done, let him go?", and this being behind his potentially career ending injuries, I guess it's plausible but at least for me, not overly likely.
I think in your average athlete/coach relationship thats more likely to go down (ie. lets say a coach that sets a plan, the athlete acts on 75% of the time on their own and thus it being hard for the coach to monitor exactly what his/her athlete is really doing), but in these highly-funded pro setups where training was like going into an office every day, it's hard to imagine PJ didn't or couldn't see what was going on straight away. At least for me, the issue was not the first injury - that happens, but it's how botched and mismanaged the recovery was. He was first hurt in that 600m in Hungary in 2020, yet then ran on it days later in Stockholm in a total meaningless season. They then had him run an indoor race only for it to be an issue after that and it was just 1 step forwards, 2 backwards all of 2021.
You are right, Brazier was a pro athlete - but still a kid. At this age and with his talent I think many posters on this message board could have written him a program and if he was healthy, he would have run incredibly well, but it's in the moments of adversity and uncertainty where the true value of a competent coach comes in. Making sure there isn't panic to run "just more race" or "test my form in this race". The injury post 600m wasn't so critical he couldn't run (he ran sub 1.44 in Stockholm just after it) so again in my opinion at this point there is no reason it wasn't fully recoverable from. As it was it just got worse and a stress fracture that turns into a full on break is an overuse/over-stress thing. That's coaching. The same thing happened with Klosterhalfen who suddenly regained form and started to be get healthy again as she was transitioning away from Julian towards the end of the 22 season.
There is just too much evidence at play to not draw some logical conclusions I'm afraid.
But Koko immediately got hurt again and worse than ‘20-‘22. 2023 without Julian was her worst/least healthy season. Julian deserves plenty of blame but on her I don’t think so. Nor on Engels. Brazier is a tough one, and then Noah Kibet was great through about April (sub-1:45i, 3:36.3) before backsliding in his first year there. The number of injuries is really the main concern (Rogers, Sinclaire) and then an athlete like Michaela Meyer of Donaghu you want to see more improvement/steadiness like you’ve seen from Keegan/Bartlesmeyer even if they’re not A-level talents.
But Koko immediately got hurt again and worse than ‘20-‘22. 2023 without Julian was her worst/least healthy season. Julian deserves plenty of blame but on her I don’t think so. Nor on Engels. Brazier is a tough one, and then Noah Kibet was great through about April (sub-1:45i, 3:36.3) before backsliding in his first year there. The number of injuries is really the main concern (Rogers, Sinclaire) and then an athlete like Michaela Meyer of Donaghu you want to see more improvement/steadiness like you’ve seen from Keegan/Bartlesmeyer even if they’re not A-level talents.
Yes but this isn't how training works. If you have trained for years in a bad system, changing your coach doesn't have immediate effect on the body. I think that KK had a good end to 22/start of 23 points to more of a mental boost (new coach theory) thing if anything that just wasn't sustainable physically due to the backlog of bad work under NOP/UAC. Sorry if I didn't convey that point well enough but that's what I meant. And the (and your point) remains, the number of injuries from that group he is responsible for is too much to turn a blind eye to.