Does Treadmill running count as mileage?

Treadmill running counts and it can be a useful tool for training. The key to using one is that you have to be familiar with your training paces and know how fast you are running. You cannot count the speed/distance of the treadmill as accurate because they aren't! None of them! I have used treadmills for all different paces and workouts, but I use them mostly for recovery runs once or twice a week. No hills involved and softer surface makes it easier on the knees. You can also use them for simulating heat during the winter. You will sweat your butt off on one! They work well for faster runs also and can help you with developing turnover speed. The belt will not slow down! You must keep up the pace! The key is to use them ocassionally, know your training paces and realize that none are calibrated accurately.

Another runner who hasn't a clue about treadmill running

It's science if it is testable.

Statistical processes can still be science. I believe, for instance, that the treadmill speed/incline tables in "Daniels' Running Formula" were developed by measuring relative oxygen uptake for various treadmill speed/incline settings verses the same sort of data taken on the road. Do this with a number of runners and you have a statistical scientific basis for making equivalency claims between running on the treadmill and running on the road. As with any statistical claim, the statement is approximately true for the sample set, but not necessarily so for any individual member of the set. With that mindset, it is true that a 1% incline approximates the effect of wind resistance. Your mileage may vary.

Sorry I didn't respond to your post sooner. I was out for a run. A real run. Haven't managed to get my computer keyboard close enough to my treadmill to type while I "train."

Not sure if you are serious, but I have gone out in the ice/snow trying to do tempos all you end up doing is slipping around.On a treadmill I can run a proper workout. I think it can be a huge benefit if you live in a large city also. Try to do a tempo run when there is a stop light every 200 meters or so. A treadmill can be very valuable.

Gun Owner wrote:

I understand the coach even though I don't agree. Mileage is mileage and if you are running, it counts. However, treadmill is a crutch and should only be used in rehab work. It should NEVER be used to duck inclimate weather. That includes the entire east coast right now.

There is a good chance your running economy at higher speeds will become worse if you do all your faster running on a treadmill. The reason is because more energy is used for stability in treadmill running. This results in a longer foot contact time with the belt. If you become extremely comfortable with the mechanics of treadmill running, you will tend to apply the same mechanics (longer ground contact time) to overland running, resulting in a more stability-based support phase, a slower stride rate and less efficient forward propulsion.

On the flip side, if you live in an area that is lacking in hills, having a treadmill can sometimes be a benefit. I say "sometimes" because even if you are running uphill, your support time on the belt will still be longer (and your stride rate slower) on the treadmill than it would be running up real hills.

Of course, it all counts as mileage. It is running, after all, and an hour on the mill is better exercise than spending the same hour staring at the idiot box.

But if you ran only on downhills, you could also count that as mileage, yet you would be woefully less prepared for a level-surface race than if you had spent the bulk of your time at race pace on flat terrain.

There is a good chance your running economy at higher speeds will become worse if you do all your faster running on a treadmill. The reason is because more energy is used for stability in treadmill running. This results in a longer foot contact time with the belt. If you become extremely comfortable with the mechanics of treadmill running, you will tend to apply the same mechanics (longer ground contact time) to overland running, resulting in a more stability-based support phase, a slower stride rate and less efficient forward propulsion.

On the flip side, if you live in an area that is lacking in hills, having a treadmill can sometimes be a benefit. I say "sometimes" because even if you are running uphill, your support time on the belt will still be longer (and your stride rate slower) on the treadmill than it would be running up real hills.

Of course, it all counts as mileage. It is running, after all, and an hour on the mill is better exercise than spending the same hour staring at the idiot box.

But if you ran only on downhills, you could also count that as mileage, yet you would be woefully less prepared for a level-surface race than if you had spent the bulk of your time at race pace on flat terrain.

yousa as wipe wrote:

My coach insists that anyone that trains on a treadmill is not really running and that it shouldn't count in our mileage. I occasionally will run a morning run on a treadmill, but I always end up feeling guilty.

OK, so do 30 minutes a day on the treadmill but don't count the mileage. Also do your other workouts.

Then show your coach how well you can run on really low mileage.

Space Lord wrote:

Toronto wrote:

I have always find that with the same effort, running outdoor is always easier(and faster) than on the treadmill.

I only run on a treadmill for an easy recovery run right after doing leg weights at the gym,...

You lift weights? Leg weights at that...you are not a runner. You have too much lower body weight from lifting those weights. And you treadmill. You sir are not a runner.

BarryP wrote:

This is why airplanes measure "air speed" and not ground speed.....because they fly in the air.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

So, is "treadmill speed" different from a runner's ground speed assuming proper treadmill calibration?

Please show me empirical evidence of this hypothesis of yours regarding the increase use of stabilizing muscles and the subsequent increase in foot contact time as result of more treadmill running vs. all land running.

Like many posters have stated, it feels harder running on the treadmill to me. I also have monitored my stride rate on all paced runs on both the treadmill and land. I have found that treadmill running has improved my land turnover rate.

(I generally only run about 20% of my mileage on treadmills but find them very useful in my training.)

douche bag daryl wrote:

Like many posters have stated, it feels harder running on the treadmill to me.

i also think it is HARDER to run on a treadmill.

this past weekend i set a new 8k pr (since i became a grown up i only count prs back to 1999). so today i can go either way on if tm running counts. if it does great, if not - even better since it means i set a pr after doing NO running in the last 3 months. either way i am happy.

I'd be willing to bet if you did nothing but train on a treadmill for 6 months your PRs would NOT drop. Your first race may feel funny, but your PRs would not drop.

Alan

So, if I go for a workout on the treadmill and take walk breaks every once in a while, can I still count it as a Gallowalking session.

Also, if the treadmill workout doesn't count as a real workout, can I just stand on the treadmill for a while and log the time and not worry about the distance.

Runningart2004 wrote:

I'd be willing to bet if you did nothing but train on a treadmill for 6 months your PRs would NOT drop. Your first race may feel funny, but your PRs would not drop.

Alan

alan,

i had big pr last year in the 1/2 marathon. i took almost 4 minutes off my best time which was from about 3 years ago. the 1/2 was in the early spring and so i was still doing nearly all my running on the tm. that same race is coming up and if my 8k time is an indication, i am in shape to drop another 2-3 minutes right now.

i have been doing 90%+ on the tm and am in the best shape i have been in several years.

that said, soon i hope to be on the roads for some long 16-20 mile runs. my goal is for a big pr in the marathon in october and will be working hard to get it. there is another thread on speed work for the marathon which i am also interested in.

douche bag daryl wrote:

Please show me empirical evidence of this hypothesis of yours regarding the increase use of stabilizing muscles and the subsequent increase in foot contact time as result of more treadmill running vs. all land running.

It's not my hypothesis. There has been plenty of research on the difference in treadmill running vs. overland running. The inescapable conclusion is that support time is longer on the mill vs. overland as the speeds increase. One of the first studies to reveal this was done at Penn State in the early 1970s. I'm sure a search engine can lead to some information on it. This study was done with trained cross-country runners who had an adjustment period to get comfortable with treadmill running.

Subsequent research also shows that, as the speeds increase, the support phase is longer, stride frequency is lower, and strides are longer on the mill. There are minor variations due to the different designs of treadmills, but the basic result is the same.

I'd only be guessing if I answered that. No hills on a treadmill, no wond resistance, .....but then there's the psychological factor.In short, I just go by time and effort on the treadmill.

Not Newton wrote:

BarryP wrote:

This is why airplanes measure "air speed" and not ground speed.....because they fly in the air.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

So, is "treadmill speed" different from a runner's ground speed assuming proper treadmill calibration?

So is it possible that fit and talented runners, who tend to have an areobic system that supports a faster normal training pace MIGHT possibly have their natural stride and efficiency effected by a treadmill?

Are these studies saying that treadmill running IS NOT EXACTLY like land running?

Could I be right in my observation that nearly half of the faster runners I know of, who train many times a month on a treadmill find that their personal corelation between treadmill effort and land effort is not close?

Every EP I know keeps hammering away at me that they have studies to show that a properly calibrated treadmill at 1% is equal to land running.

They never convinced me, and I do not train myself or my runners according to the charts.

I believe I found the article you are referring to being cited in a more recent study on this topic. The authors of this recent study stated:

"According to Nelson et al (1972), a leg being extended further upon heel strike normally causes a longer support phase and a shorter swing phase for specific velocities. Although the support and swing phases of our runner did not change we did see that the knee was extended to a greater angle upon impact, which indicates that he was preparing for a longer stance phase, which was not observed."

They are basically saying that this increased stance phase/support time was not observed.

Source:

http://users.wfu.edu/borojg2/BIOMECH/BodyFrame.htm