I did almost all of my training in the pool or bike. I ran 2-3 x week. 2 were track workouts, and maybe one solid steady hour run. The rest was pool running and high cadence on an exercise bike
I just read Gault’s article, great work as always.
It’s interesting to note that the system was refined using lactate measurement, and Marius says that it’s very important to measure lactate. Then Gault interviews the big American coaches using the system and they are judging pace from “respiration” and “feel”. You can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink
I wonder how swimmers would train using the lactate threshold. They aren't - I presume - allowed to bleed into the water. It seems to me that swimming programs don't use this training as much as running programs do, either.
Lactate measuring is not neccessary to find out the runners very best threshold pace in training. My successful training system has proved that . 🧙♂️🇸🇪The Magician
When Grant Fisher was on the LRC podcast, he mentioned that when he first joined Bowerman after workouts he would be so tired he would go back to his apartment and lie on the floor for several hours. Obviously may be an exaggeration but safe to say they were not doing controlled double threshold sessions. And it clearly worked well for him...
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but I have not had time to read the whole thread…
Does anyone remember when Lance Armstrong made his comeback from cancer, and one of the main reasons for his massive improvements was the many miles that he put in cycling at over 80rpm in lower gears, when most pro cyclists at the time were pushing higher gears at 60 to 70 rpm? This was attributed as being a main factor in his success. Little did we know at the time. In fact everyone in a bike in the ensuing years switched to 80rpm +. Sometimes, as someone else earlier in the thread noted…we need to ignore what could be smoke and mirrors and perhaps look elsewhere for the answers.
What to me was a big surprise is that Letsrun after xxyears thought about the idea that training for what a raceday look like is a new idea. Back in the 80 if you had 2 races on one day you trained accordingly. Or 4 than you mimiced it in training, no rocket science. You're stupid for not doing it.
So what was new oh new dope..... If going faster it is always, food, refueling, gear, track (bouncy) or dope. Dope always gives the most progress......
Yes but you'll have to do some legwork. The book "The Competitive Runners Training Book" talks about the training more in depth and hints at how you might do this but isn't super specific. It also details the Oregon system and it does seem like Dellinger likes his pseudo-double threshold workouts.
Sometimes, as someone else earlier in the thread noted…we need to ignore what could be smoke and mirrors and perhaps look elsewhere for the answers.
Isn't it strange that a country with only 5 million inhabitants can have the best ever in the 400m hurdles, soon to be the best ever (Ingebrigtsen), one of the best in golf (Hovland) and tennis (Ruud), the most sought-after football player (Haaland) and one of the best football players in the world (Ødegaard). All of them are active in summer sports, from a frozen country and at the very pinnacle of the world's elite. Could it be possible that the Norwegians are just doing a lot of things right and has been doing so for quite a while?
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
Does anyone have any insight into what Mike Smith means by respiration? See this quote "
"Many groups still do this, but not all. Levins goes by feel — marathon effort for morning sessions, half-marathon or 10k effort in the afternoon. NAU doesn’t measure lactate either — Smith goes off respiration."
Is he just referring to effort in some sort of pseudoscientific way or is this a specific measurement?
Does anyone have any insight into what Mike Smith means by respiration? See this quote "
"Many groups still do this, but not all. Levins goes by feel — marathon effort for morning sessions, half-marathon or 10k effort in the afternoon. NAU doesn’t measure lactate either — Smith goes off respiration."
Is he just referring to effort in some sort of pseudoscientific way or is this a specific measurement?
Pseudoscience. He watches and listens to how the runners are breathing.
Does anyone have any insight into what Mike Smith means by respiration? See this quote "
"Many groups still do this, but not all. Levins goes by feel — marathon effort for morning sessions, half-marathon or 10k effort in the afternoon. NAU doesn’t measure lactate either — Smith goes off respiration."
Is he just referring to effort in some sort of pseudoscientific way or is this a specific measurement?
Pseudoscience. He watches and listens to how the runners are breathing.
There are talk tests that work okay for finding the first ventilatory threshold (VT1), which correlates with the first lactate threshold (LT1). It's not pseudoscience, just field testing, but it would be hard to use something like that for the entire NAU team and really believe in your accuracy.
Also, double thresh as a system is founded on training at what's called the maximal lactate steady state (MLSS), which is slightly beyond VT1 and LT1, so respiration field tests can't currently help much in finding it as far as I'm aware.
It should be noted, though, that training at VT1 does improve the athlete's ability to use lactate while operating under the classic 4.0 mmol/L. It likely just requires higher volumes of training (probably seen in Smith's "sub-T" workouts).
The aims of this study were (1) to establish the best fit between ventilatory and lactate exercise performance parameters in running and (2) to explore novel alternatives to estimate the maximal aerobic speed (MAS) in well-tr...
The Norwegian model of lactate threshold training and lactate controlled approach to training. A look at some of the concepts, history, and keys to improvement. I wrote most of the articles found…
I just read Gault’s article, great work as always.
It’s interesting to note that the system was refined using lactate measurement, and Marius says that it’s very important to measure lactate. Then Gault interviews the big American coaches using the system and they are judging pace from “respiration” and “feel”. You can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink
I wonder how swimmers would train using the lactate threshold. They aren't - I presume - allowed to bleed into the water. It seems to me that swimming programs don't use this training as much as running programs do, either.
You couldn't be more wrong. Lactate testing is a lot more popular in swimming than running.