Trans women go from being a mid to decent JV runner as a guy to winning or placing high in women races. Trans women should compete in mens races or not at all. If this is a sacrifice they’re willing to make to be happy that’s cool. Once you get out of your mother’s basement eating cheese balls and start running some miles, you can comment on this.
By your logic, why separate men's and women's sports at all? Being male is an advantage in basketball just like being all. Just let everyone compete together with no sex or gender categories.
To be fair it was pretty funny seeing one of the recent championship mixed 4x400m relays where one country ran their female leg while everyone else ran males. Dudes looked like they had rockets on their feet mowing down that chick
...shouldn't compete with vintage women because trans women have an (allegedly) obvious advantage, what is next?
ban blacks from sports? (No. black people are human beings. Homo sapiens. They compete in sports fairly. Trans women are male and shouldn't compete against females.).
ban tall people from the nba? (No. Tall people are human beings. Homo sapiens. They compete in sports fairly).
ban short people from gymnastics? (no. short people are human beings. Homo sapiens. They compete in sports fairly).
what exactly is your end goal? (fairness in women's sports)
life is unfair, sports are unfair. (Fairness is a massive tenant in sports. That's why there's a women's category. That's why there are rules).
do you think bolt and phelps won because they trained more than others? (Probably, and maybe doping was involved, they were talented men who competed in the men's division).
or because they had an obvious advantage? (Their advantages were not that obvious)
...shouldn't compete with vintage women because trans women have an (allegedly) obvious advantage, what is next?
ban blacks from sports?
ban tall people from the nba?
ban short people from gymnastics?
what exactly is your end goal?
life is unfair, sports are unfair.
do you think bolt and phelps won because they trained more than others?
or because they had an obvious advantage?
A better comparison to trans women competing against cis women would be disabled competitors like Oscar Pistorious or wheelchair competitors competing against able bodied competitors on foot.
Many (including myself) argued it was an unfair advantage for Oscar to compete against able bodied men because he didn't feel his lower legs cramping up. THat's why there's separate divisions for paralympians. Keep in mind, Oscar was NOT the gold medalist at the Olympics and didn't make the final. But many, including myself, found it unfair.
Now imagine someone in a wheelchair competing against Sadie Engelhardt tomorrow...
Disabled people are marginalized. But they figured out a way to compete fairly amongst one another. Their advantages in some cases against their able bodied counter parts are recognized. They have their own divisions as a result. Sometimes in Paralympic events there are only one or two competitors in each classification. But no one seems bothered. It's only trans women who make a fuss. Can't have a third category they say, because there are not enough people.
...shouldn't compete with vintage women because trans women have an (allegedly) obvious advantage, what is next?
ban blacks from sports?
ban tall people from the nba?
ban short people from gymnastics?
what exactly is your end goal?
life is unfair, sports are unfair.
do you think bolt and phelps won because they trained more than others?
or because they had an obvious advantage?
A better comparison to trans women competing against cis women would be disabled competitors like Oscar Pistorious or wheelchair competitors competing against able bodied competitors on foot.
Many (including myself) argued it was an unfair advantage for Oscar to compete against able bodied men because he didn't feel his lower legs cramping up. THat's why there's separate divisions for paralympians. Keep in mind, Oscar was NOT the gold medalist at the Olympics and didn't make the final. But many, including myself, found it unfair.
Now imagine someone in a wheelchair competing against Sadie Engelhardt tomorrow...
Disabled people are marginalized. But they figured out a way to compete fairly amongst one another. Their advantages in some cases against their able bodied counter parts are recognized. They have their own divisions as a result. Sometimes in Paralympic events there are only one or two competitors in each classification. But no one seems bothered. It's only trans women who make a fuss. Can't have a third category they say, because there are not enough people.
The last point is a good one. Not too many people are going to want watch a transgender athlete run a solo 3200m during the state meet.
The last point is a good one. Not too many people are going to want watch a transgender athlete run a solo 3200m during the state meet.
I have a hard time imagining anyone watching a 3200m race. I watch track and haven't witnessed one. How far down the obscurity hole does one have to go to find an event held over that distance?
Idiotic tranny activists always make this argument - "Banning trannies from dominating women's sports is the same as banning blacks from MLB". It makes no sense and is logically flawed - there's a big difference between letting men compete against other men and letting men dominate women.
We had a very low 9s runner senior year who broke 9 in a postseason meet. Watching someone run - even solo - a low 9:0x 3200 is exciting even without a kick; watching someone struggle in a 10:30 is not.
...shouldn't compete with vintage women because trans women have an (allegedly) obvious advantage, what is next?
ban blacks from sports?
ban tall people from the nba?
ban short people from gymnastics?
what exactly is your end goal?
life is unfair, sports are unfair.
do you think bolt and phelps won because they trained more than others?
or because they had an obvious advantage?
"Vintage" women?
Remember trans women do not have to take testosterone suppressors to be trans. In some sports just saying (and maybe having legal steps taken) "I am a woman" is enough. Also even with testosterone suppression after puberty the evidence is mounting that advantages linger.
A goal for many is to protect women's sport since the sex divisions were set up for fairness to begin with.
Bolt and Phelps were better because they had inherent gifts and trained to optimize them. Ledecky is similar and yet as one of the greatest female swimmers of all time her WR in the 1500m free is about 50 seconds off the men's WR.
A better comparison to trans women competing against cis women would be disabled competitors like Oscar Pistorious or wheelchair competitors competing against able bodied competitors on foot.
Many (including myself) argued it was an unfair advantage for Oscar to compete against able bodied men because he didn't feel his lower legs cramping up. THat's why there's separate divisions for paralympians. Keep in mind, Oscar was NOT the gold medalist at the Olympics and didn't make the final. But many, including myself, found it unfair.
Now imagine someone in a wheelchair competing against Sadie Engelhardt tomorrow...
Disabled people are marginalized. But they figured out a way to compete fairly amongst one another. Their advantages in some cases against their able bodied counter parts are recognized. They have their own divisions as a result. Sometimes in Paralympic events there are only one or two competitors in each classification. But no one seems bothered. It's only trans women who make a fuss. Can't have a third category they say, because there are not enough people.
When Tatyana McFaden was in high school, she sued her school district for her right to race against able bodied runners. (See her Wikipedia page for more details.)