Another run across America underway - is it legit? Boots currently on the ground

I'm no Transcon expert. But something you often read is that the runners feel pretty exposed running on the fringe of busy roads. The road that he ran down for the last 2 hours of this day is a narrow, busy road, and he didn't just run for a short time in the dusk, he ran it for 2 hours in the dark, with probably 90 minutes in pitch blackness. 52 days into a run, and after being fatigued with 14 hours on the road that day, that's extremely dangerous.

Hi, yes, a complete misinterpretation, never said that. I put out a diplomatic peace giving them a chance to behave, but that was it. Nothing on my observation told me this was real, and ever since I left, there has been total chaos with the data.

Whatever, whatever, comes out of this, these 10 things can't be denied:

1) RB and WG eschewed a tracker for no good reason, when most everyone else wears them, and a Hall of Fame US ultrarunner has said that alone means, "all bets are off."

2) HR monitors pick up a credible pulse on a runner circa 99% of the time, and let no man say otherwise - and if they do they're in the 1%.

3) WG and RBs hearts work 99%+ of the time outside of these multiday fundraising events.

4) But during them, for 14,000k, over 5 events, 6+ watches, and two different runners, they only work 10% of the time. There is no debate about that, the debate is as to why. The grave fear is that RB and WG are tampering with their watches during these events. And if tampering has ever occurred, that is grossly untoward, and a hostile act toward the noble sport of distance running - much of which relies on the "Honours Code".

5) RB and WG have never once commented or tried to address their filthy HR data in these 14,000k and 4 years. Their intellectual and emotional curiousity about the issue has been zero; even though a human pulse for a professional endurance runner is a fascinating and critical piece of data. It tells onlookers that the runner is actually doing it, and how hard they're working, and it gives the athlete huge insight into how things are going, whether they need to back off... whether they're getting sick, etc etc.

6) Balenger doesn't record heart rate, maps or splits for his runs out here, but nobody knows why - he didn't for his Speed project to Vegas either, which is riddled with inconsistencies and strange moments. He blocked me on Strava the moment I started looking into his inexplicably bizarre Transcon. Check it out for yourself [March 2019], it's a nonsense, and has nigh on identical modus operandi to this. He then hooked up with WG and they've been inseparable ever since, and WGs Jogle a few months later is pure farce.

7) The chances that WG's heart will return to normal after this event is over 99%. We know this because it works perfectly for the hundreds of runs he has done outside of these events since 2019.

8) It is never too hard to find really weird stuff going on with these two's other runs either: Caught watch-sharing at RB's Transcon the very first time I clicked on another runner. Caught riding at Jogle the very first time I saw a strange kink in the road. A flurry of 2 minute Ks at RBs TSP. His Central Park run is a huge "tech fail", if you want to call it that, and more importantly some 4 hours up on what you would expect for him. 100 miles in hilly Central Park in 16:39 [18:07 elapsed] is ludicrously quick for a runner who did 87 miles in 33 hours, and 27 hours for a 100 miles in the same year.

9) The acute hostility, arrogance, rampant profiteering, lifestyle, and sheer disrespect these two show for running is far unlike anything I've seen in my 40 years in the sport. WGs big speech to camera the other day that other runners and their achievements are nothing to him because he's just done 121 marathons was a disgrace, as was his assault on Bruce Tulloh's legacy and his absolute cast iron certainty that he would demolish Bruce even though his MDS and other running pointed to a ca. 80 day Transcon. Bruce's daughter wrote to say she was keeping all this from his widow as she would find it far too upsetting.

10) As we now know the research of RB and WG was a sham and a downright lie. The British/English record was 53 not 64 days, but they knew darn well they could never go for that as they would simply have been laughed at from the outset. When this error was highlighted about 3 weeks in, NOT ONCE have they acknowledged the blunder, apologised for it, or corrected the media. News articles are now being released, saying WG is about to become the fastest Brit. It's a moral outrage - you are seeing skulduggery right before your eyes.

For all those who believe in the classic, historic ideals of running, dating back centuries, I urge you all to give these potty-mouthed, grasping, shady opportunists a very hard time in the coming years. They hide behind charity and Mandy's legacy as a means of turning their backs on the workplace and making wonderful living and a life of adventure in the outdoors. WG is to now go and live the life of an international playboy in 12 nations all over the world for the next 12 months, from his profits off these runs and his generous sponsorships and Gofundme raising. They're not obliged to hand one penny of their Go Fund Me to charity if they don't want to. He notes that when working as a model he was broke and living off credit. He's not broke any more.

In terms of their social media fans versus the relatively small community of serious runners who care about what is at stake here, this is a David versus Goliath conflict, and WG and RB know this, and it's why they laugh at us and viciously ridicule me in their videos and other media.

Well, let me remind them: David won.

It's great to get input from a legend such as Kostelnick but do wonder if he needs to take a peak back into the land of us mere mortals.

A little like Kipchoge being asked about his thoughts on a 2:35 marathon from someone who previously ran a 3:30 4 months before.

"Well err 2:35 is doable"

So you don’t care if he’s cheating. That’s fine, but very strange that you are so invested in “not caring”.

Two thoughts I would like to add:

1. Don't chase off people that believe this thing is legit. Yes, joke around and banter back and forth. Sure. But we need opposing viewpoints of expert distance runners. It helps us cover all bases and improves our chances at arriving at the truth of this thing. We don't need an echo chamber. I want to learn the truth. If it is legit then so be it.

2. Definitely don't disparage those that are getting their boots on the ground and watching him run. Even if they have an opposing viewpoint. They have put in the effort to watch him and we need more people to do so. We need visible feedback of unannounced visitors. The ones that are seeking permission from the crew are fine but we need people surprising them unannounced.

Thanks for some sensible words. I gave up posting because just presenting a few ideas to challenge the narrative that he must be cheating, immediately gets you put in

I didn’t say I don’t care, but I think we’re completely confusing “impressive” with “abnormal”. The likes of Sandra Villines and Jenny Hoffman can throw him in the dust on a transcon run, and they’re 3:20-3:30 marathoners. Yes, impressive to do 50 miles a day, but they did far more. I’m sure there are 2:20 marathoners who would give up after a few days of doing 50 miles a day, depending on how they approached it. But at the end of the day, if you run it slow with a lot of walking mixed in, it’s not an abnormal result. Sure, it gets praised since the n-size is tiny of people doing these attempts. If you gave all the finishers of Western States 100 the opportunity to do what he’s doing (50ish miles a day), probably 80% could do it. If they had to average 70 miles, maybe 2-3% would. If you can walk half the day, you’re really only “running” a marathon a day. Shoot, I run plenty of 30 mile days with a full time job. Did 32 yesterday, and I’m not in superhuman shape by any means right now.

Yes, I think it was 9 starters, and if you couldn't return 50 miles by 10pm you got tossed into the gutter, despite your £800 entry. 4 or 5 were nigh on swiflty wiped out, and the last was on his own for the last 3 or 4 days, and he too went out of the range, but they gave him special dispensation. I did tell the company that their way of doing things was a wee bit harsh.

In my little 2 yearly Jogle championships, we've had 29 runners and riders [apols for the unfortfunate pun], and 17 have finished, 12 dnfs, and the leader is at 50 mpd. [The above gentleman]

Mr. Kostelnak is best friends with Robbie Balenger. This is well known in the ultra community.

Yes I’ve done that race, and several others with bigger daily mileages, which is why I go along with Pete on this because I am a very average 3:30 marathon runner. The reason there is a high dropout on the jogle race imo is because most others who attempt it are too, and haven’t put in the training required. But, in reality, running/walking a couple of 6 hour marathons a day is not as big a deal as people on here are making out.

That said, the 60s and 70s he’s thrown in recently are certainly more impressive/questionable. But alongside that he has been accompanied in big chunks of them and Strava data seems to tally. And we also have someone who has observed at 4 points unannounced, but of course in good LR fashion, immediately gets labelled one of the crew.

Lot of questions to be asked / answered, and no satisfying answers so far, but just a cursory glance at the HRs from another ongoing ultra () sees them sat in the low 110s/120s ().

marathonhandbook.com

Britain’s “Hardest Geezer” Aims to Run the Entire Length of Africa Non-Stop

@broadseathomas

It is always interesting to learn about the various running goals that different runners set. Some goals are rather predictable—breaking a certain time in the 5k or another distance, finishing your first marathon, placing in

Link:marathonhandbook.com/hardest-geezer-af...

strava.com

Strava Runner Profile | Russ Cook

Russ Cook is a runner using Strava. Join Strava to track your activities, analyze your performance, and follow friends. Strava members can plan routes, participate in motivating challenges, and join clubs. Get started by sign...

Link:www.strava.com/athletes/22704023

Doesn't this somewhat muddy WillVLC's "never seen before on any other Strava ultra run" argument? Another example of the same low HR phenomenon - this one in much hotter conditions (in which you would expect greater cardiac drift).

In WG's case, I wouldn't be surprised if PEDs were involved - not sure if this has been mentioned? Increased hematocrit from EPO would thicken the blood (and slow HR), something that could worsen over the course of a day as the athlete becomes dehydrated. The increased O2 carrying capacity of the blood would also facilitate a low HR at the already incredibly low intensity exercise that's being presented (as others have said - this is quick by any measure).

Not out of the realms of possibility that someone who sells their image for a living would be willing to use PEDs to improve chances of completing events that they use for sponsorship / $$$ chasing.

This one was dealt with much earlier in the thread - Russ is covering a much lower mileage each day, moving slower and taking much longer breaks - not comparable.

Lol youre telling me this guy preached to Youtube that he ran 121 marathons, in which he went sub 3 exactly zero times, then got mad when people questioned his dodgy data and ability to go 60 miles+ a day for 50 days?? You gotta be pulling my GOOCH brother

Yes, all covered, not remotely comparable. Russ took 10:22 over 45k yesterday, with perfect rising data from 115 to 130. He is taking it very, very steady and his 119bpm is fine for that level of caution.

I'm looking for people running 6 min Ks at 105s for 100k. [When we have Kostelnick doing days at 165-170+ as I showed yesterday, on back to back days].

If you want to put it down to him being on drugs, or superhuman, fine, but remember normally this guy has some of the highest HR on the planet - stuff like hitting 189 at London, so this is purely a "tech fail vs tampering" argument.

My feeling is that tampering is leading tech fail on this board 97-3. On page 89 for instance, WC supporters were 226-2 up on WG supporters in the arrows.

Maybe I'm just a brilliant arguer? I don't think so... I'm just highlighting 4+ years and 14,000k of anomalies with these two [and their nondescript running elsewhere], and my opposition has Sneakers, PK, 50+, Recruiter in their ranks, all pretty fierce debaters.

I have always believed that it's nearly impossible to establish new "records", successfully raise charitable funds and appease sponsors all in the same event. The approaches to achieving these goals can be/is totally different. In ranked order I'd say sponsor appeasement, athletic achievement, charitable raise is how this one will sort out. Only Team WG will know if this was a succes and to a large extent what everyone else thinks simply doesn't matter. Assuming he makes it in over the next 36-48 hours, I'll just say "welcome to the club". It's been an entertaining 8 weeks of dot watching and speculation.

Agreed, which is why I didn’t and I’m glad Dave Proctor didn’t on his second and home run effort last summer across Canada (focusing on the record and nothing else). Ultimately Will C has given life to some ridiculous record that no one in the USA crossers or ultrarunning community will acknowledge, whether it’s 53 or 64 days. I guess I’ll just go for the American JOGLE record lol no thanks.

And at a higher heart rate.

Look at all those runs where WG had extended runs in the 95-110 range. This guy was running less, slower and a higher HR.

The record is just part of it Pete and the hook upon which they attracted a lot of media and sponsorship. Your argument is identical to Balenger's who just screams at me that the only reason I care about this is "because I've got a hard-on for a dead man." One of the most disgusting insults I've ever heard.

The far graver charge is becoming Pro runners and claiming athletic feats they're not doing properly, and refusing to wear a tracker, and filing data that's 10% clean. You can continue your foul attitude to me all you like but your ambassadorial spirit to the sport has been appalling on this, and your close friendship and sharing a sponsor with RB has dreadfully clouded your judgement.

I expected someone like you to be all over this stuff like a tramp on chips, but, well, never meet your heroes. Quite the opposite has been the case, you've full on agreed with the troll above who said, "who cares if he's faking it?" Errr, WE DO!! And so should you. Because it's everything that the noble sport of running stands against. It is a spiritual journey that is truly humbling and involves enormous sacrifice. We're not seeing any of that here, and haven't for four years.

WG will make huge media and capital gain from all this, and you're just waving it through and not engaging whatsoever with the talking points. FYI, midpack runners don't attract nigh on 100 page threads on Letsrun because they've done something good, but because they've done something bad.

This to me doesn't prove or disprove anything. You say he's doing "the running and putting in the work" but you have no idea if that running is the same running that we see on Strava.

I think most of us already accept that he's running much of the day, the issue is whether the running that he is doing is the exact same running as what is being recorded on Strava to his profile.