How to apply Norwegian approach without doubles?

not perfect wrote:

it's not perfect but you can copy the hobbyjogger Ingebrigtsen's training. He runs 3 threshold workouts per week and mainly does them on Tu/Th/Sat.

Here's what Jon Arne Glomsrud posted:

"He is on Strava.
He runs easy Mon-wed-Fri as 12k@4.40 and Sunday long 80-90min@4.40
He does 3 workouts a week Tue-Thu-Sat
8x1k@3.45 w/500m Easy@4.35
5x2k w/60s rest
3x3k w/60s rest
Both @3.45-3.40
He avoids fast running to stay out of trouble but this training is solid for HM. His record is 80min, but he will break it next time. It is obvious that he has the genetics for a high Vo2max.
I think running with Jakob who doesn't know how to run slowly is risky for his legs. Remember that Jakob runs his easy runs at Kristoffer's HM pace... As he said in the podcast: it is not sustainable..."

Link:www.strava.com/athletes/49271631

not perfect wrote:

it's not perfect but you can copy the hobbyjogger Ingebrigtsen's training. He runs 3 threshold workouts per week and mainly does them on Tu/Th/Sat.

Here's what Jon Arne Glomsrud posted:

"He is on Strava.
He runs easy Mon-wed-Fri as 12k@4.40 and Sunday long 80-90min@4.40
He does 3 workouts a week Tue-Thu-Sat
8x1k@3.45 w/500m Easy@4.35
5x2k w/60s rest
3x3k w/60s rest
Both @3.45-3.40
He avoids fast running to stay out of trouble but this training is solid for HM. His record is 80min, but he will break it next time. It is obvious that he has the genetics for a high Vo2max.
I think running with Jakob who doesn't know how to run slowly is risky for his legs. Remember that Jakob runs his easy runs at Kristoffer's HM pace... As he said in the podcast: it is not sustainable..."

Link:www.strava.com/athletes/49271631

ItalianJob wrote:

Hello everyone,

Nowadays the Ingebritsen training and the norwegian approach can be easily found online thanks to the work of Marius Bakken, the first to test and use this new training method. Essentialy the norwegian method is based on two double threshold days, two easy double days, a single easy day,a long run of 80 minutes and a session on hills.

One of the strength of this method is the amount of work right around threshold, and it requires an high volume of running, roughly 150-180 km per week. Which is a lot, if you are coaching an U20 athlete or a senior athlete who is not a pro and therefore cannot double every single day due to job assignment. Another limit is that you have to strictly monitor lactate levels with a device, which makes this training almost impossible to apply to a team. However, if you coach just a single athlete is probably one of the better approaches on training.

So my question to you is how to adapt this approach in those case, when you work with an athlete who can't run double threshold session and can't run 160 km per week, but just 100-110 km per week. The double threshold workout cannot be done, so how would you adjust these two days?

For example, Bakken proposed on Tuesday and Thursday the following:

Tuesday:

AM: 5x6 min at 2.5 mmol with 60 second rest

PM: 10x1km at 3.5 mmol with 60 second rest

Thursday:

AM: 5x2km at 2.5 mmol with 60s rest

PM: 25x400m at 3.5 mmol with 30s rest

Roughly speaking, it's 10km of volume in the morning and 10 in the afternoon. I want to know your opinion on how to adjust this sessions with a young athlete who is not used to these kind of volume or with a senior one who can't run this many session due to job.

The best idea is probably a mix of the two session, but how shall the volume be set? And how would be the progression to build upon the double threshold session for a young athlete?

hi hi wrote:

ItalianJob wrote:

Hello everyone,

Nowadays the Ingebritsen training and the norwegian approach can be easily found online thanks to the work of Marius Bakken, the first to test and use this new training method. Essentialy the norwegian method is based on two double threshold days, two easy double days, a single easy day,a long run of 80 minutes and a session on hills.

One of the strength of this method is the amount of work right around threshold, and it requires an high volume of running, roughly 150-180 km per week. Which is a lot, if you are coaching an U20 athlete or a senior athlete who is not a pro and therefore cannot double every single day due to job assignment. Another limit is that you have to strictly monitor lactate levels with a device, which makes this training almost impossible to apply to a team. However, if you coach just a single athlete is probably one of the better approaches on training.

So my question to you is how to adapt this approach in those case, when you work with an athlete who can't run double threshold session and can't run 160 km per week, but just 100-110 km per week. The double threshold workout cannot be done, so how would you adjust these two days?

For example, Bakken proposed on Tuesday and Thursday the following:

Tuesday:

AM: 5x6 min at 2.5 mmol with 60 second rest

PM: 10x1km at 3.5 mmol with 60 second rest

Thursday:

AM: 5x2km at 2.5 mmol with 60s rest

PM: 25x400m at 3.5 mmol with 30s rest

Roughly speaking, it's 10km of volume in the morning and 10 in the afternoon. I want to know your opinion on how to adjust this sessions with a young athlete who is not used to these kind of volume or with a senior one who can't run this many session due to job.

The best idea is probably a mix of the two session, but how shall the volume be set? And how would be the progression to build upon the double threshold session for a young athlete?

Conversations About Running, featuring Simen Halle Haugen

Part of the podcast he details how to implement this in lower mileage runners, as well as when the training system feels when you should double:

Link:podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/conversa...

The total volume of threshold running, although important, is really just relative to what total mileage you are doing in the moment. For a young athlete where you might only do 5km in one single session, it would be better to do two 4km sessions in one day. Something like that. It’s proportional to the athlete.

Also often overlooked is the “X factor” workout that Marius often talks about. It is the OTHER workout that is not threshold. If you only do threshold and nothing else, you will not be ready to race. For the Ingebrigsten’s they use hills, but for your young athlete maybe that is too intense and you need something still fast but easier to absorb.

If your athlete is only doing 1x threshold session once per week, then doing 2x threshold in a day for only one day a week is already a big jump. Same if you do 2x single threshold session in a week, when before they might have only done one. I wouldn’t rush into 4x sessions across two days just yet. Slowly expose the athlete to the stress. This podcast and others who train in the system even recommend it.

ItalianJob wrote:

hi hi wrote:

Conversations About Running, featuring Simen Halle Haugen

Part of the podcast he details how to implement this in lower mileage runners, as well as when the training system feels when you should double:

Link:podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/conversa...

The total volume of threshold running, although important, is really just relative to what total mileage you are doing in the moment. For a young athlete where you might only do 5km in one single session, it would be better to do two 4km sessions in one day. Something like that. It’s proportional to the athlete.

Also often overlooked is the “X factor” workout that Marius often talks about. It is the OTHER workout that is not threshold. If you only do threshold and nothing else, you will not be ready to race. For the Ingebrigsten’s they use hills, but for your young athlete maybe that is too intense and you need something still fast but easier to absorb.

If your athlete is only doing 1x threshold session once per week, then doing 2x threshold in a day for only one day a week is already a big jump. Same if you do 2x single threshold session in a week, when before they might have only done one. I wouldn’t rush into 4x sessions across two days just yet. Slowly expose the athlete to the stress. This podcast and others who train in the system even recommend it.

Thanks for your info, I had no idea this podcast was out, I'll for sure take time to listen to it. The clarification on the other workout day is of course good, but I always thought that session had to be te key of their week, otherwise how coulde they run 62-64s laps in a 5K without doing anything faster than 70s pace? Instead of 20x200m hills I was thinking about starting at something like 8x200m hills followed by 4x200m flat to gradually build up