Sure many of the physical and psychological phenomena which that article lists as "PMS symptoms" - aches and pains, thirst and appetite changes, fatigue, swelling of the hands or feet, skin problems, insomnia, poor concentration, depression, irritability, anxiety, angry outbursts, crying, nap taking, changes in sexual desire etc. - can and do occur during menstruation.
But the fact that these phenomena can and do occur whilst a girl or woman is menstruating means they are not occurring premenstrually and thus they are not caused by, or part of, premenstrual syndrome.
All these same symptoms can and do occur during times of life when women and girls can't get PMS because we don't ovulate and menstruate then, such as during pregnancy, after menopause and prior to puberty adolescence.
All the symptoms that can be counted as PMS symptoms in girls and women during the 40 or years we are capable of ovulation and menstruation if they occur at the time in our cycles after we've ovulated but before our menstrual flow has started can and do occur in males too. Because the same exact physical and psychological symptoms that people experience can have many, many different causes.
The majority of people with symptoms of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) such as flatulence, loose stools, constipation and abdominal pain do not have those symptoms because they have IBS. Many people with symptoms of serious immune deficiency do not have those symptoms because of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Most people who experience crushing fatigue and are feeling extremely "poorly," as the British would put it, do not have those symptoms due to chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).
god lord, learn to condense your posts.
It's to the point that when I'm scrolling through a thread and suddenly come across a wall of text I'm 99% sure it's you. You just saying the same thing over and over.
No one....and I mean no one...reads your entire posts.
Cut your posts down by half and maybe a few people will actually read them.
It gets writing practice on this forum for a book it’s writing. It seems to think if it writes a lot, somebody would read something.
But it evens out since the reverse is also true. To be female can also be male. No need for labels anyway. Equality means equality and people are people. Equality is Boolean and either is or it isn't. You can't be sometimes equal and sometimes treated differently.
For decades women have been asked to be treated no different than men. They want the same job opportunities, same family and work balance, the removal of the glass ceiling. It's very disingenuous to be arguing that for 50 years and then turn around and say but no we want to be treated differently here in sports. Any quality in the corporate world should be mirrored in the sports world where men and women compete together and the better or more deserving one wins.
What I'm seeing on this thread is a lot of we want to quality sometimes but not here.
What a piece of misogynistic crap. Because women want equality (and we men are butthurt about it) it is ok to just let weird men (which is what DSD's and Trans are - they are not women, regardless of PC "inclusiveness") have their way with "women's rights". Sounds like another version of men raping women - nothing new here. But since it isn't actually killing women, that is ok?
I am very thankful (as a guy) that there are posters like RunRagged, who have the guts to try and refute the crap that modern men are inflicting upon women again. Make no mistake it is men that are leading this charge. I thought that was behind us, but this generation just supports the weird against the norm. I am hoping it is all a fad (just like non-binary) but that doesn't appear to be the case - so women have to defend their rights all over again it seems (like they did 100 years ago just to get the right to vote in America). Now it is about being able to compete against other biological women. But then men always screw things up by taking something simple (like defining a biological woman) and making it complex.
I think you raise a really good point regarding this just being another way for men (and clearly I don't mean all men because the vast majority I believe find all of this to be beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical) to basically marginalize women in sports and create even more inequality. And of course it's all framed up under this narrative of "the modern and progressive world we need to adapt to and should have adapted to already" and "how can we talk about freedom if someone isn't free to..." (which is particularly powerful with Americans who are on the cusp of implosion anytime someone brings their "freedom" into question) - which is very cleverly crafted yet at the same time disingenuous.
Because you are right - I don't remember many sportswomen, let alone women (and for the sake of this I use these terms with respect to biological women) at all being at the forefront of this virtuous drum beating - it's almost always transgender women (men) and/or men who don't really give a f--k about the issue they just want to leverage it for some agenda of their own (using political a la Joe Biden). On the very rare occasion a biological women is a vocal advocate of this position it's always 1) someone with an agenda as stated above and almost always one that knows absolutely nothing about sport - to the degree that they believe for example that (for example) mens and womens athletic performances are quantifiably similar. That sounds crazy to us (running peeps) that anyone could possibly believe this but it's shockingly accurate. My wife (who isn't into sport at all and doesn't have opinions on this because of it) was stunned when I told her about 6 months ago that by the time I was 15 I had already run well inside the womens WR in the 800m and that no women would ever beat that time of my 15 year old self. People just don't get it and yet feel compelled to have not just opinions on it but create compelling truths for themselves.
Women’s livelihoods are at stake man. They don’t stand a chance. They might as well give up now before their inevitable upcoming loss to a trans woman.
I think you raise a really good point regarding this just being another way for men (and clearly I don't mean all men because the vast majority I believe find all of this to be beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical) to basically marginalize women in sports and create even more inequality.
I think you raise a really good point regarding this just being another way for men (and clearly I don't mean all men because the vast majority I believe find all of this to be beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical) to basically marginalize women in sports and create even more inequality.
This, pretty much. That is the end result.
Right? And the worst part - right under their freaking noses. Like right there. Galling not just as a lover of sports, but also for me personally as man who has to be associated with this garbage and also all the other cr@ppola men have pulled over the years in many facets of life.
I think you raise a really good point regarding this just being another way for men (and clearly I don't mean all men because the vast majority I believe find all of this to be beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical) to basically marginalize women in sports and create even more inequality.
This, pretty much. That is the end result.
So the “really good point” raised is that this is all a plot by men (and clearly I don’t mean all men) to start wearing bikinis and makeup and outrun women in sports while “the vast majority” of men are helplessly watching this “beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical” show.
So the “really good point” raised is that this is all a plot by men (and clearly I don’t mean all men) to start wearing bikinis and makeup and outrun women in sports while “the vast majority” of men are helplessly watching this “beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical” show.
I think we are all in fundamental agreement on that no?
I think you raise a really good point regarding this just being another way for men (and clearly I don't mean all men because the vast majority I believe find all of this to be beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical) to basically marginalize women in sports and create even more inequality. And of course it's all framed up under this narrative of "the modern and progressive world we need to adapt to and should have adapted to already" and "how can we talk about freedom if someone isn't free to..." (which is particularly powerful with Americans who are on the cusp of implosion anytime someone brings their "freedom" into question) - which is very cleverly crafted yet at the same time disingenuous.
Because you are right - I don't remember many sportswomen, let alone women (and for the sake of this I use these terms with respect to biological women) at all being at the forefront of this virtuous drum beating - it's almost always transgender women (men) and/or men who don't really give a f--k about the issue they just want to leverage it for some agenda of their own (using political a la Joe Biden). On the very rare occasion a biological women is a vocal advocate of this position it's always 1) someone with an agenda as stated above and almost always one that knows absolutely nothing about sport - to the degree that they believe for example that (for example) mens and womens athletic performances are quantifiably similar. That sounds crazy to us (running peeps) that anyone could possibly believe this but it's shockingly accurate. My wife (who isn't into sport at all and doesn't have opinions on this because of it) was stunned when I told her about 6 months ago that by the time I was 15 I had already run well inside the womens WR in the 800m and that no women would ever beat that time of my 15 year old self. People just don't get it and yet feel compelled to have not just opinions on it but create compelling truths for themselves.
So I like your post and you make great points.
Women and men physically differ in ways that are directly relevant to competition.
I don’t support trans athletes competing in elite (NCAA, elite/pro) competition.
I do think the proposed WA rules while not adhering to the strict “fairness” principle espoused by many are going to render this issue moot. What do you think is the chance that somebody is going be competitive after 2 years of T suppression at the level required? It’s zero. Even now there are no elite trans T&F athletes, and this notion that we are about to see an opening of the floodgates does not seem grounded in reality.
Where I beg to differ with you is this notion that all of this has been foisted on women by a bunch of misogynist men. There is a long list of women elite athletes and feminists in society that support trans rights in sports and outside sports. Everybody here loves to bash on these people (Megan Rapinoe, Candace Parker, Billie Jean King, et al), but their opinions are valid. The list of non athlete feminists is even longer. Don’t you think Candace Parker knows a lot about elite sports? In fact, men in general are far more likely to be against trans inclusion than women. That’s an indisputable fact.
The last thing that really bothers me is that the issue of trans rights v exclusion has become a darling of the political far right in this country, and many who are all for banning trans kids from high school sports are also for taking away reproductive freedom, denying women equal pay and opportunity and proper family and child care support, turning a blind eye to rape culture and abuse, etc. Doesn’t this raise anybody’s suspicions about the real motivations of the many arguing for trans exclusion? Maybe not the people posting here, but in society in general. Many of the loudest voices against trans inclusion cannot be considered pro women in any way.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
So the “really good point” raised is that this is all a plot by men (and clearly I don’t mean all men) to start wearing bikinis and makeup and outrun women in sports while “the vast majority” of men are helplessly watching this “beyond idiotic and simply nonsensical” show.
I think we are all in fundamental agreement on that no?
Yes, in agreement that that is your really good point. What puzzles me though is why the vast majority of reasonable men like yourselves don’t do something about this pressing women’s rights issue?
Once the testosterone limit is halved, and the duration of the limit is doubled, all the trans athletes will come out of their closet and dominate women's sports.
We have been hearing about this scenario for years, so it must be true.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote: I don't remember many sportswomen, let alone women (and for the sake of this I use these terms with respect to biological women) at all being at the forefront of this virtuous drum beating - it's almost always transgender women (men) and/or men who don't really give a f--k about the issue they just want to leverage it for some agenda of their own (using political a la Joe Biden). On the very rare occasion a biological women is a vocal advocate of this position it's always 1) someone with an agenda as stated above and almost always one that knows absolutely nothing about sport - to the degree that they believe for example that (for example) mens and womens athletic performances are quantifiably similar.
Yeah, Women's Sports Foundation knows nothing about sport, right?
March 11, 2021: The passage of SB 2536 in Mississippi marks the first piece of state legislation to be signed into law during the 2021 legislative session that targets transgender athletes’ participation in sports. During thi...
The last thing that really bothers me is that the issue of trans rights v exclusion has become a darling of the political far right in this country, and many who are all for banning trans kids from high school sports are also for taking away reproductive freedom, denying women equal pay and opportunity and proper family and child care support, turning a blind eye to rape culture and abuse, etc. Doesn’t this raise anybody’s suspicions about the real motivations of the many arguing for trans exclusion? Maybe not the people posting here, but in society in general. Many of the loudest voices against trans inclusion cannot be considered pro women in any way.
Those men love to bully trans children because they get satisfaction out of playing the traditional male role of "guarding women from harm." You see, women like BJK, Rapinoe and Parker (all LGBTQ, BTW) offend them because those women would not allow men to play that traditional role.
The last thing that really bothers me is that the issue of trans rights v exclusion has become a darling of the political far right in this country, and many who are all for banning trans kids from high school sports are also for taking away reproductive freedom, denying women equal pay and opportunity and proper family and child care support, turning a blind eye to rape culture and abuse, etc. Doesn’t this raise anybody’s suspicions about the real motivations of the many arguing for trans exclusion? Maybe not the people posting here, but in society in general. Many of the loudest voices against trans inclusion cannot be considered pro women in any way.
Those men love to bully trans children because they get satisfaction out of playing the traditional male role of "guarding women from harm." You see, women like BJK, Rapinoe and Parker (all LGBTQ, BTW) offend them because those women would not allow men to play that traditional role.
Bullying includes insisting on calling transwomen men, and is little different from bullying a boy by calling him sissy or a gay person a faggôt. It’s fine to debate fairness of participation in the women’s category, but bordering on hate speech if one’s starting argument is “you are not a woman” to someone who identifies as a woman.
The term “biological women” so often thrown around here does not and will not appear in any regulatory documents by sporting bodies, state or federal laws, or the constitution, and there is precedent for any references to sex to be interpreted as or explicitly changed to include gender. The far right may not like it, but this has all already happened. There’s no going back.
I think we are all in fundamental agreement on that no?
Yes, in agreement that that is your really good point. What puzzles me though is why the vast majority of reasonable men like yourselves don’t do something about this pressing women’s rights issue?
Why? Honest truth? Because many people (not just men) are afraid of this POV getting them sh-tcanned in their societal circles, losing their jobs etc.
I mean I would talk about it openly and honestly with people I trust - other than that do you think I'm crazy? And I'll freely admit that is tragic, really sad and not the way it should be in the US, especially given this thing called the first amendment - but it is the way it is right now.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote: I don't remember many sportswomen, let alone women (and for the sake of this I use these terms with respect to biological women) at all being at the forefront of this virtuous drum beating - it's almost always transgender women (men) and/or men who don't really give a f--k about the issue they just want to leverage it for some agenda of their own (using political a la Joe Biden). On the very rare occasion a biological women is a vocal advocate of this position it's always 1) someone with an agenda as stated above and almost always one that knows absolutely nothing about sport - to the degree that they believe for example that (for example) mens and womens athletic performances are quantifiably similar.
Yeah, Women's Sports Foundation knows nothing about sport, right?
So let's get one thing off the table - title IX is more about equality with respect to how government funding is appropriated with respect to the genders at any school/educational institute. If anything it acknowledges the importance of maintaining gender separation in sports because if it didn't there wouldn't be any need for it to begin with (and btw biological woman would basically receive nothing as all money would get filtered to just "sport" in which males would be dominant in terms of team selections/scholarships etc. So just stop.
As for the 176 women signing a "legal brief" - good for them. Do they know anything about sport? Maybe not - I mean so easy for these established athletes either retired or nearing the end of their careers to be championing a cause they clearly couldn't bother to understand the implications of. What's hilarious is that all of these athletes owe their fame and fortunes (to whatever degree that might be) to the fact there is actually male and female categorization in sports. Maybe Megan Rapinoe could donate all her career earnings to the cause and try their hand at making the US Mens team to prove a point? Yeah didn't think so. If anything these women have let other young hard working female athletes all around the US down with this POV which is purely a self agenda serving take.
WSF - I can't even be bothered.
Then again your handle is "hobby jogger" so clearly having no aspirations to be competitive of compete it's understandable you couldn't grasp the potential implications of this.
Ultimately it's amazing that in trying to advocate for fairness and equality in competitive sport - especially for women, that somehow women in particular are heinously offended by it. I've always maintained that maybe we should just run an experiment and do away with gender and run sport the way it is now - let's just let the best humans under the current criteria of performance, irrespective of gender, have the opportunity and (professionally) the money. Would be fascinating to see how this plays out for women even though we all know how it does.
Yes, in agreement that that is your really good point. What puzzles me though is why the vast majority of reasonable men like yourselves don’t do something about this pressing women’s rights issue?
Why? Honest truth? Because many people (not just men) are afraid of this POV getting them sh-tcanned in their societal circles, losing their jobs etc.
I mean I would talk about it openly and honestly with people I trust - other than that do you think I'm crazy? And I'll freely admit that is tragic, really sad and not the way it should be in the US, especially given this thing called the first amendment - but it is the way it is right now.
I know, my question was rhetorical. I don’t think you are crazy for being afraid to talk openly.
However, the trans rights changes that are happening are not being thrust on the masses by some mysterious small group of powerful people. There comes a time when the conscience of a significant majority can no longer permit them to hold a position that denies equal personhood and dignity to a people for traits with which they were born. It happened before with slavery, women’s suffrage, segregation, and very recently gay marriage.
Yes, in agreement that that is your really good point. What puzzles me though is why the vast majority of reasonable men like yourselves don’t do something about this pressing women’s rights issue?
Why? Honest truth? Because many people (not just men) are afraid of this POV getting them sh-tcanned in their societal circles, losing their jobs etc.
I mean I would talk about it openly and honestly with people I trust - other than that do you think I'm crazy? And I'll freely admit that is tragic, really sad and not the way it should be in the US, especially given this thing called the first amendment - but it is the way it is right now.
Is this why there are more than 200 bills to attack LGBTQ people proposed all over the country in this year alone?
Yeah, it takes quite a courage for those politicians to tell LGBTQ children to go back to their closet and get depressed.
Friendly reminder, this is an emotional topic for most. Please be respectful. Disagreeing strongly about the role of trans athletes in sport is fine but forgetting the humanity of trans athletes is not.
