Ah yes, ArmstrongLivs and Coevett, always the 2 leading racists and their endless doping allegations.
Still dont understand why Rojo and mods allows this slandering to continue.
What will it take for LRC to delete any comment from either of them that involves the words doping, drugs or EPO? How many more athletes must they demean before you all think this is despicable behavior? On a running website no less.
Because you double down on irrelevant facts just not make irrelevant facts relevant. I don't like to make negative statements against my former XC teammates and former XC competitors, but U.S. distance running has ZERO to do with E.K. dominating all Marathoners while E.K. is in his late 30's. Ethiopia's version of let'srun is likely more informal, most likely a 1/2 dozen aged out runners in a coffee shop somewhere in Ethiopia. When Ethiopians discuss U.S. 100m, 200m & 400m sprinters, a discussion of Ethiopian sprinters is irrelevant. Are you really that thick in the head that you cannot understand, E.K. is dominating Ethiopians, Kenyans and Ugandans. Who cares how fast E.K. races 1/2 Marathon and Marathon compared to U.S. runners.
Lest we also forget that of the 20 top Kenyan marathoners between 2016 - 2020, five have been suspended or banned for anti-doping offences. Hopefully all the bad apples have been caught. I would say though, that for most rational people, 25% doping bust rate doesn't look good for the odds of the guy who is seconds faster than them at 37 being squeeky clean.
2. Wilson Kipsang 4. Lawrence Cherono 17. Sammy Kitwara 19. Daniel Kinyua 20. Abraham Kiptum
Kenya and the AIU are trying to catch cheats. Let's note Kiptum was a flash in the pan, the authorities got him into the testing system and he got popped very quickly. Kipsang is a whereabouts situation. If you believe that he did that to miss tests, you are saying you think the testing system works. Sammy Kitwara was popped for a TUE violation (asthma medication). Wanjiru (Kinyua) also is another sign of the testing apparatus working with an ABP failure. Cherono got caught out of competition.
So to me, while you could draw the conclusion from this that Kenyans must be all cheating, you could also make the conclusion that testing is working. Someone like Kipchoge is heavily scrutinized for his ABP, is easy to find, and if you even want to go into scuttlebutt he wasn't in the Fancy Bears hack.
Of course my analysis is relevant. We have a situation where only maybe a handful of US runners could run half of Eliud’s marathon. Can you think of any other time in history where this would be the case? Of course not.
Because you double down on irrelevant facts just not make irrelevant facts relevant. I don't like to make negative statements against my former XC teammates and former XC competitors, but U.S. distance running has ZERO to do with E.K. dominating all Marathoners while E.K. is in his late 30's. Ethiopia's version of let'srun is likely more informal, most likely a 1/2 dozen aged out runners in a coffee shop somewhere in Ethiopia. When Ethiopians discuss U.S. 100m, 200m & 400m sprinters, a discussion of Ethiopian sprinters is irrelevant. Are you really that thick in the head that you cannot understand, E.K. is dominating Ethiopians, Kenyans and Ugandans. Who cares how fast E.K. races 1/2 Marathon and Marathon compared to U.S. runners.
It is not directly germane to the discussion but it is another measuring point of how far Kipchoge has become aberrant. Surely you have enough intelligence to grasp this? Or perhaps not.
And because you struggle with logic, I will add that Eliud would be 3rd on the list for US at 10000m BUT his first HALF of his marathon yesterday would be a close 2nd on the US half marathon list. Maybe you can grasp this and what it means. Or perhaps not.
Ah yes, ArmstrongLivs and Coevett, always the 2 leading racists and their endless doping allegations.
Still dont understand why Rojo and mods allows this slandering to continue.
What will it take for LRC to delete any comment from either of them that involves the words doping, drugs or EPO? How many more athletes must they demean before you all think this is despicable behavior? On a running website no less.
Eliud didn't break 27 in the Kenyan Olympic trials in 2012. He finished what, 4th? That's one race. I don't think one race signals the end of a career. And in his case, it didn't.
And because you struggle with logic, I will add that Eliud would be 3rd on the list for US at 10000m BUT his first HALF of his marathon yesterday would be a close 2nd on the US half marathon list. Maybe you can grasp this and what it means. Or perhaps not.
It means the US is really weak. The woman are worse were the AR can't even pace out to the half way point. in the US if your fast enough to run a 60, you are in line to make the 5k/10k team. Our 27 min guys don't go run the marathon in general.
There's nothing exceptional about a resurgence in the marathon after a declining track career. What is truly rare is to maintain such dominance in the marathon for nearly a decade. However, I do know of many who have maintained or improved from their non-elite level in the marathon after running a lot of them over a decade or more. Kipchoge has a routine and he never pushes it. He runs 15x1k at 2:45 at altitude, along with set fast long runs, and he never loses his focus and simple lifestyle, unlike, say, Bekele or Geb (who was very consistent but had a lot of business interests, and Bekele followed him in that respect). So, given whatever got him to that 2:03 level in the first place, drugs, natural talent, hard work, you can see why he would be able to maintain that level and even improve when super shoes came in. I admire the guy immensely. I hope that he is clean and I hope that he was clean even when he was on the track in 2003, but particularly during his marathon career.
Kipchoge's 5000m progression. Runs 13:13 as a 17 year old, 12:52 at 18, and his pb 12:46 at 19. This is very similar to Nijel Amos, except at least Amos had the excuse of being pulled around by Rudisha in that 2012 final. Progression is halted as soon as EPO testing is introduced. Moves to the roads the same year as the first ABP sanction was made.
I don't quite understand the importance of the ABP thing considering he gets tested OOC and is subject to the exact same rules on the roads as on the track.
The biggest mystery is why Kipchoge wasn't good at the 10,000, really. He was still good at the 3K/5K as evidenced by an 8:07 2 mile FTW indoors, a 7:31 3K (runner-up), and a 12:55 5,000 (even well back). You could maybe ask the same for Hellen Obiri up until this year, but then she was a whisker away from winning Gold at Worlds in the 10,000.
Kipchoge was definitely a natural on the roads. Running 59:25 (in old shoes) in his debut at the tail end of a track season would be akin to Barega/Cheptegei running 58:30 in their first try (or equivalent performance competitively). Barega did his best this past season but got beaten handily by Kiplimo. So you wouldn't tap him to be a natural at it like you might with Kipchoge considering he built on it in 2013 with strong HMs/full. Kiplimo seems to be the nearest prospect we've had in road running.
There is no money in the 10000. The list of guys with fast 5ks and slow 10ks is pretty long...
There is a long history of guys running fast marathons around 35-38. They all drop off by 40. Granted kipchoge dropping off is going to be running a 2:05....
Marathon is sort of unique in that it isn't all about aerobic power like the 5000-hm. Ability to not run out of fuel or have the legs not break down matter a lot. If you have 27min 10k speed and your are a natural marathoner, you are running down around 2:03. See all the Japanese guys who are 28min guys and running 2:08s... Just not a lot of guys who are both fast and marathoners...
Does Kip also perform more efficiently at taking gels/pit stops/water than the others, i.e. his time loss for fueling is so much less than the others over 42.2km?
And because you struggle with logic, I will add that Eliud would be 3rd on the list for US at 10000m BUT his first HALF of his marathon yesterday would be a close 2nd on the US half marathon list. Maybe you can grasp this and what it means. Or perhaps not.
It seems the only US marathoners right now that could be in spitting distance of Kip would be Rupp or Fisher.
Lest we also forget that of the 20 top Kenyan marathoners between 2016 - 2020, five have been suspended or banned for anti-doping offences. Hopefully all the bad apples have been caught. I would say though, that for most rational people, 25% doping bust rate doesn't look good for the odds of the guy who is seconds faster than them at 37 being squeeky clean.
2. Wilson Kipsang 4. Lawrence Cherono 17. Sammy Kitwara 19. Daniel Kinyua 20. Abraham Kiptum
Kenya and the AIU are trying to catch cheats. Let's note Kiptum was a flash in the pan, the authorities got him into the testing system and he got popped very quickly. Kipsang is a whereabouts situation. If you believe that he did that to miss tests, you are saying you think the testing system works. Sammy Kitwara was popped for a TUE violation (asthma medication). Wanjiru (Kinyua) also is another sign of the testing apparatus working with an ABP failure. Cherono got caught out of competition.
So to me, while you could draw the conclusion from this that Kenyans must be all cheating, you could also make the conclusion that testing is working. Someone like Kipchoge is heavily scrutinized for his ABP, is easy to find, and if you even want to go into scuttlebutt he wasn't in the Fancy Bears hack.
"Only the dumb and the careless get caught" - Richard Pound, WADA. Kipchoge's as clean as Bolt. If you want to believe that.
And of course what I mean is any other time in history when only about a handful of Americans could run half of the world record in the marathon.
I can’t tell if you’re just trolling for laughs here, but there have been plenty of times when only a few Americans could reach halfway of the marathon WR. The World Athletics stats only go back to 2001, but that year the top American half-marathoner was Scott Larson at 1:03:08. The world record at the time was Khannouchi’s 2:05:42.
Now, if you ask “Was Khannouchi doping?”, that’s certainly an interesting question (to put it mildly). But my answer would be the same regardless of whether the top American was running 60 flat or 66 minutes.