A thread about Faith Kipyegon, and Army gets 29 out of the first 80 posts repeating himself, as he does day after day, calling all fast athletes of today dopers.
Keep barking, Fido.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
So you don't know what you mean by "rife" either?
By looking at history, at all of the Kenyan women in the top-462 fastest performances, which everyone can confirm for themselves, with or without me, who exactly did I "defend"?
You aren't literate enough to play your silly word games. "Rife" is the number of doping busts we have seen in Kenyan running in the last few years. The country has been identified by WADA as having a doping problem.
You only turn up to defend known or suspected dopers. It means we must be on the right track once you start beginning your usual waffle.
I must by on the right track if you avoid explaining your vague statements and instead predictably attempt to insult my intelligence.
This allowed you to avoid specifying who it is you allege I "defend" by looking at the top-100 and then the top-426 performances.
138 Kenyan positives was from all sports. By that measure doping is "rife" in all countries. In 2019, New Zealand had 10 ADRVs across all sports. Multiplying 10 per year over the same 14 year period, and we can arrive at a similar figure -- Kenya is about par with New Zealand.
Finally, it is the AIU, and not WADA, who identified Kenya's national federation as having an anti-doping problem.
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Off now wrote:
A thread about Faith Kipyegon, and Army gets 29 out of the first 80 posts repeating himself, as he does day after day, calling all fast athletes of today dopers.
Keep barking, Fido.
Not all. But another Kenyan, who has run 3.50 - absolutely. Except to the wilfully blind.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You aren't literate enough to play your silly word games. "Rife" is the number of doping busts we have seen in Kenyan running in the last few years. The country has been identified by WADA as having a doping problem.
You only turn up to defend known or suspected dopers. It means we must be on the right track once you start beginning your usual waffle.
I must by on the right track if you avoid explaining your vague statements and instead predictably attempt to insult my intelligence.
This allowed you to avoid specifying who it is you allege I "defend" by looking at the top-100 and then the top-426 performances.
138 Kenyan positives was from all sports. By that measure doping is "rife" in all countries. In 2019, New Zealand had 10 ADRVs across all sports. Multiplying 10 per year over the same 14 year period, and we can arrive at a similar figure -- Kenya is about par with New Zealand.
Finally, it is the AIU, and not WADA, who identified Kenya's national federation as having an anti-doping problem.
You are a stupid bag of wind. WADA has referred to Kenya's doping issues in its annual reports - it isn't the property of the AIU and nor does it change the indisputable fact that Kenya has had serious doping issues for years.
The overwhelming Kenyan positives came from running. By contrast I have seen no reports of doping busts in NZ - none in running - and it has been listed as one of the countries (comparable to Iceland) that is least affected by doping practices. There are no WADA or AIU surveys putting NZ on a par with Kenya. You are as big a liar as Trump - and just as ignorant.
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All countries have the same number of athletes? Without knowing those numbers, your statistic is useless.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
I must by on the right track if you avoid explaining your vague statements and instead predictably attempt to insult my intelligence.
This allowed you to avoid specifying who it is you allege I "defend" by looking at the top-100 and then the top-426 performances.
138 Kenyan positives was from all sports. By that measure doping is "rife" in all countries. In 2019, New Zealand had 10 ADRVs across all sports. Multiplying 10 per year over the same 14 year period, and we can arrive at a similar figure -- Kenya is about par with New Zealand.
Finally, it is the AIU, and not WADA, who identified Kenya's national federation as having an anti-doping problem.
You are a stupid bag of wind. WADA has referred to Kenya's doping issues in its annual reports - it isn't the property of the AIU and nor does it change the indisputable fact that Kenya has had serious doping issues for years.
The overwhelming Kenyan positives came from running. By contrast I have seen no reports of doping busts in NZ - none in running - and it has been listed as one of the countries (comparable to Iceland) that is least affected by doping practices. There are no WADA or AIU surveys putting NZ on a par with Kenya. You are as big a liar as Trump - and just as ignorant.
Oh -- doubling down on intelligence insults -- I must be on the fast track to right.
This all stems from your inability to separate what WADA does and what the AIU does, and your generally poor ability to express the facts correctly. Sure WADA has referred to Kenyan's doping issues in it annual reports, along with 116 other nations, across 89 sports/disciplines (in 2019), including New Zealand. According to WADA, Kenya is not even in the top-10. But then you give me a graphic from the Economist, which sources the AIU (and includes non-doping issues too, i.e. whereabouts failures). Which is it? WADA or the AIU? Either way, what both WADA and the AIU fail to do, with these absolute numbers, is to express them as a percentage of the athlete population being tested.
But this is all beside the point. Your insecurity about wanting to reaffirm Kenya's "doping issue" does nothing to address any point I made about whether the Kenyan women's 1500m performance was "rife".
If doping is "rife" and performance is not "rife", the only logical conclusion is that "rife" doping isn't working for the Kenyan women in the 1500m.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You are a stupid bag of wind. WADA has referred to Kenya's doping issues in its annual reports - it isn't the property of the AIU and nor does it change the indisputable fact that Kenya has had serious doping issues for years.
The overwhelming Kenyan positives came from running. By contrast I have seen no reports of doping busts in NZ - none in running - and it has been listed as one of the countries (comparable to Iceland) that is least affected by doping practices. There are no WADA or AIU surveys putting NZ on a par with Kenya. You are as big a liar as Trump - and just as ignorant.
Oh -- doubling down on intelligence insults -- I must be on the fast track to right.
This all stems from your inability to separate what WADA does and what the AIU does, and your generally poor ability to express the facts correctly. Sure WADA has referred to Kenyan's doping issues in it annual reports, along with 116 other nations, across 89 sports/disciplines (in 2019), including New Zealand. According to WADA, Kenya is not even in the top-10. But then you give me a graphic from the Economist, which sources the AIU (and includes non-doping issues too, i.e. whereabouts failures). Which is it? WADA or the AIU? Either way, what both WADA and the AIU fail to do, with these absolute numbers, is to express them as a percentage of the athlete population being tested.
But this is all beside the point. Your insecurity about wanting to reaffirm Kenya's "doping issue" does nothing to address any point I made about whether the Kenyan women's 1500m performance was "rife".
If doping is "rife" and performance is not "rife", the only logical conclusion is that "rife" doping isn't working for the Kenyan women in the 1500m.
The ultimate in denial. So what, where or who the doping statistics come from? Kenya has had a stream of doping busts in running for years and it has officially been identified as a serious problem. No one, including me, said doping is rife in "Kenya's female 1500m runners" - as you shift the goal posts yet again - but it is rife in Kenyan running, as years of doping busts and official reports have shown. But doping is certainly present however in any female athlete who is running 3.50 for the 1500m. But to doping deniers like you and the fan boys on this board there is no time that would suggest a doped performance, as to you 3.50 clearly doesn't, even though the only times in that realm have been recorded by dopers and obvious doping suspects. We can look forward to the same drivel from you when Kipyegon runs 3.45.
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Ghost1 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Juiced.
Very unlikely that she is juiced. She is just a very hard working Kenyan runner, working hard and reaping the benefits of very organized and systematic training, with almost 100 percent of her intervals on the track (mostly at the Kipchoge stadium in Eldoret) done with male pacers. I was there in April/May this year in Eldoret and saw her train at the stadium with my own eyes. What stood out for me was the efficiency and quasi perfect form of her running form with an apparent total lack of inefficient movements, unfortunately so common in many other Kenyan female runners.
In addition, Faith is a God Fearing Christian, which would make it unlikely for her to engage in illicit practices. Some people might consider this a silly and irrelevant point, but it is worth mentioning, nevertheless. In short I think that most people have faith in Faith.
Doesn’t Sang coach her out of Kapchorwa?
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HATC1 wrote:
Ghost1 wrote:
Very unlikely that she is juiced. She is just a very hard working Kenyan runner, working hard and reaping the benefits of very organized and systematic training, with almost 100 percent of her intervals on the track (mostly at the Kipchoge stadium in Eldoret) done with male pacers. I was there in April/May this year in Eldoret and saw her train at the stadium with my own eyes. What stood out for me was the efficiency and quasi perfect form of her running form with an apparent total lack of inefficient movements, unfortunately so common in many other Kenyan female runners.
In addition, Faith is a God Fearing Christian, which would make it unlikely for her to engage in illicit practices. Some people might consider this a silly and irrelevant point, but it is worth mentioning, nevertheless. In short I think that most people have faith in Faith.
Doesn’t Sang coach her out of Kapchorwa?
Sang is based in the Rift Valley, Eldoret, Kapsabet and Iten.
Kapchorwa is in Uganda and there's no need to go there.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
The ultimate in denial. So what, where or who the doping statistics come from? Kenya has had a stream of doping busts in running for years and it has officially been identified as a serious problem. No one, including me, said doping is rife in "Kenya's female 1500m runners" - as you shift the goal posts yet again - but it is rife in Kenyan running, as years of doping busts and official reports have shown. But doping is certainly present however in any female athlete who is running 3.50 for the 1500m. But to doping deniers like you and the fan boys on this board there is no time that would suggest a doped performance, as to you 3.50 clearly doesn't, even though the only times in that realm have been recorded by dopers and obvious doping suspects. We can look forward to the same drivel from you when Kipyegon runs 3.45.
You still have failed to specify who I allegedly "defended" by looking for Kenyan women in the fastest top-100 and top-426 performances.
To hide your consistent failure, you just added a new allegation, again without being specific. What did I deny exactly? I accepted without any contradiction the "rifeness" of Kenyan doping -- whether you want to count WADA ADRVs, or the AIU bans. This is the context I considered when I then looked at the "rifeness" of fast performances for correlations.
One drawback of looking just at AIU figures is that they won't include bans from national federations. It is the AIU that invented the Category A, B, and C countries in "Rule 15", disproportionally skewing their focus towards countries that perform well internationally, like Kenya, and national federations that have anti-doping problems, like Russia.
My unchanging goalpost has always been performance -- which coincidentally is also the subject of this thread. Is doping certainly present in a 3:50 woman's performance? You could probably make a reasonable case for the Chinese women in Beijing 1993 and Shanghai 1997. None of these sub-4:00 Kenyan women I found in the top-426 performances are included in any WADA ADRV annual reports, or in the AIU bans referred to in the Economist.
I'll make a deal with you. Just get your facts right, and attribute it to the right organization, and I won't waste any more time correcting you on the facts.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The ultimate in denial. So what, where or who the doping statistics come from? Kenya has had a stream of doping busts in running for years and it has officially been identified as a serious problem. No one, including me, said doping is rife in "Kenya's female 1500m runners" - as you shift the goal posts yet again - but it is rife in Kenyan running, as years of doping busts and official reports have shown. But doping is certainly present however in any female athlete who is running 3.50 for the 1500m. But to doping deniers like you and the fan boys on this board there is no time that would suggest a doped performance, as to you 3.50 clearly doesn't, even though the only times in that realm have been recorded by dopers and obvious doping suspects. We can look forward to the same drivel from you when Kipyegon runs 3.45.
You still have failed to specify who I allegedly "defended" by looking for Kenyan women in the fastest top-100 and top-426 performances.
To hide your consistent failure, you just added a new allegation, again without being specific. What did I deny exactly? I accepted without any contradiction the "rifeness" of Kenyan doping -- whether you want to count WADA ADRVs, or the AIU bans. This is the context I considered when I then looked at the "rifeness" of fast performances for correlations.
One drawback of looking just at AIU figures is that they won't include bans from national federations. It is the AIU that invented the Category A, B, and C countries in "Rule 15", disproportionally skewing their focus towards countries that perform well internationally, like Kenya, and national federations that have anti-doping problems, like Russia.
My unchanging goalpost has always been performance -- which coincidentally is also the subject of this thread. Is doping certainly present in a 3:50 woman's performance? You could probably make a reasonable case for the Chinese women in Beijing 1993 and Shanghai 1997. None of these sub-4:00 Kenyan women I found in the top-426 performances are included in any WADA ADRV annual reports, or in the AIU bans referred to in the Economist.
I'll make a deal with you. Just get your facts right, and attribute it to the right organization, and I won't waste any more time correcting you on the facts.
Houlihan. Your posts seeking to exonerate a convicted doper are endless. The only athlete you have conceded might have doped in the last forty years was Kratochvilova.
You don't "correct" the facts; you routinely obfuscate, dissemble, deny, excuse and retreat into irrelevant semantic waffle.
Facts: the only women athletes to run in the region of 3.50 have been dopers and a suspected doper. Kipyegon is now in that company. Doping is rife and has been so for years in Kenyan sport, and elite running has been particularly affected. As a Kenyan, Kipyegon is amongst that group.
So what is there to say Kipyegon isn't part of the Kenyan sports doping culture that surrounds her and how does a clean athlete match the very best doped achievements in her sport? If you think she is clean then - like most fans - you have your eyes closed.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
You still have failed to specify who I allegedly "defended" by looking for Kenyan women in the fastest top-100 and top-426 performances.
To hide your consistent failure, you just added a new allegation, again without being specific. What did I deny exactly? I accepted without any contradiction the "rifeness" of Kenyan doping -- whether you want to count WADA ADRVs, or the AIU bans. This is the context I considered when I then looked at the "rifeness" of fast performances for correlations.
One drawback of looking just at AIU figures is that they won't include bans from national federations. It is the AIU that invented the Category A, B, and C countries in "Rule 15", disproportionally skewing their focus towards countries that perform well internationally, like Kenya, and national federations that have anti-doping problems, like Russia.
My unchanging goalpost has always been performance -- which coincidentally is also the subject of this thread. Is doping certainly present in a 3:50 woman's performance? You could probably make a reasonable case for the Chinese women in Beijing 1993 and Shanghai 1997. None of these sub-4:00 Kenyan women I found in the top-426 performances are included in any WADA ADRV annual reports, or in the AIU bans referred to in the Economist.
I'll make a deal with you. Just get your facts right, and attribute it to the right organization, and I won't waste any more time correcting you on the facts.
Houlihan. Your posts seeking to exonerate a convicted doper are endless. The only athlete you have conceded might have doped in the last forty years was Kratochvilova.
You don't "correct" the facts; you routinely obfuscate, dissemble, deny, excuse and retreat into irrelevant semantic waffle.
Facts: the only women athletes to run in the region of 3.50 have been dopers and a suspected doper. Kipyegon is now in that company. Doping is rife and has been so for years in Kenyan sport, and elite running has been particularly affected. As a Kenyan, Kipyegon is amongst that group.
So what is there to say Kipyegon isn't part of the Kenyan sports doping culture that surrounds her and how does a clean athlete match the very best doped achievements in her sport? If you think she is clean then - like most fans - you have your eyes closed.
Houlihan? You are in the wrong thread.
Since you suspect runners based solely on fast times -- your logic that the only ones achieving fast times are suspected dopers is circular.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
A World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) report in September 2018 said 138 Kenyan athletes tested positive from 2004 to August 2018.
I wonder if that constitutes "rife"?
Not if it's from a pool of thousands and barely cracks 1% of Kenyan pros. Now, if Nick Willis or one of the Robertson twins tested positive, that would be 33% of New Zealand elites. So yes, "rife" is relative.
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rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Houlihan. Your posts seeking to exonerate a convicted doper are endless. The only athlete you have conceded might have doped in the last forty years was Kratochvilova.
You don't "correct" the facts; you routinely obfuscate, dissemble, deny, excuse and retreat into irrelevant semantic waffle.
Facts: the only women athletes to run in the region of 3.50 have been dopers and a suspected doper. Kipyegon is now in that company. Doping is rife and has been so for years in Kenyan sport, and elite running has been particularly affected. As a Kenyan, Kipyegon is amongst that group.
So what is there to say Kipyegon isn't part of the Kenyan sports doping culture that surrounds her and how does a clean athlete match the very best doped achievements in her sport? If you think she is clean then - like most fans - you have your eyes closed.
Houlihan? You are in the wrong thread.
Since you suspect runners based solely on fast times -- your logic that the only ones achieving fast times are suspected dopers is circular.
You have continually defended dopers. Houlihan is such an example. You have conceded only one runner was a likely doper - Kratochvilova - and she was forty years ago.
I don't suspect runners "solely based on fast times", as you falsely claim: I suspect world record-level times previously recorded by dopers, and those running them - like Kipyegon - who come from a sports culture with significant doping issues.
But you suspect no one. And if runners were to dope you also hold the view that the drugs they take are not performance enhancing outside a placebo effect.
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El Keniano wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
A World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) report in September 2018 said 138 Kenyan athletes tested positive from 2004 to August 2018.
I wonder if that constitutes "rife"?
Not if it's from a pool of thousands and barely cracks 1% of Kenyan pros. Now, if Nick Willis or one of the Robertson twins tested positive, that would be 33% of New Zealand elites. So yes, "rife" is relative.
Speaks for itself.
"Next to Russia, who has a blanket ban, Kenya has the most suspended athletes in the sport of athletics in the world. There are approximately 80 Kenyan athletes coming out of or, entering or somewhere in the middle of two to four-year provisional or unappealable bans."
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^ Again, a drop in the bucket.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Houlihan? You are in the wrong thread.
Since you suspect runners based solely on fast times -- your logic that the only ones achieving fast times are suspected dopers is circular.
You have continually defended dopers. Houlihan is such an example. You have conceded only one runner was a likely doper - Kratochvilova - and she was forty years ago.
I don't suspect runners "solely based on fast times", as you falsely claim: I suspect world record-level times previously recorded by dopers, and those running them - like Kipyegon - who come from a sports culture with significant doping issues.
But you suspect no one. And if runners were to dope you also hold the view that the drugs they take are not performance enhancing outside a placebo effect.
I can only conclude from this that you yourself think your basis for suspicion is so weak, you need to import your failed misconceptions and lies from other threads.
The right answer is that my looking at the top-426 performances to see if Kenyan performance is "rife", is doping neutral and defending no one.
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Ghost1 wrote:
I invite you to go to Kenya (as I have done and quite recently back in April and May 2022 ), and to observe her training in Eldoret (Kipchoge stadium, get there early around 6 AM) and Kapsabet. She trains with male runners who are quite a bit faster than her and those male runners can run around 339 or faster for 1500 m and the pacer in training requires a quasi daily basis commitment so it is not astonishing that she can run 3:50.00.
What workouts have you seen her doing?
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El Keniano wrote:
^ Again, a drop in the bucket.
Those are the ones who are caught. Most aren't. But to be next to Russia - which virtually required its athletes to dope - puts it up there for being champions amongst dopers.
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